Transcript
Index
00:00:46 - Reeves wanted this interview session to focus on Mitchell’s pre-WPR life. He asked Mitchell to give a brief overview of early years. Mitchell spent the next 45 minutes detailing his life up to 1976. He touched on the following topics: father and mother’s background, early years in Detroit, including his first fourteen in Detroit and his almost immediate interest in radio; the family’s move to Bloomfield Township (suburb of Detroit), which was a “huge change” for JM.
00:10:19 - After his degree in Michigan, Mitchell began his work in radio with a job at an FM station in Detroit. JM spent the next several minutes discussing his other radio jobs: in Flint, where he created a radio documentary in Flint about race relations; and in Ann Arbor, where his first news broadcast was Election Night 1964. While back in Ann Arbor, JM earned his master’s degree and taught a course there. At that point JM’s dream job would entail teaching and running a college radio station.
00:21:47 - In 1967 Congress passed the Public Broadcasting Act. JM offered his memories of its passage, including “sneaking” radio language into the bill, which JM was not directly involved in but knew the key players involved. Public radio was small, but it had money from the Public Broadcasting Act. Public Radio’s leaders funded a fellowship for 2 people to live in England and work/train outside the U.S. Mitchell earned one of the fellowships and spent a year working at the BBC.
00:27:47 - JM’s moment of truth became deciding between either working in academia or in public radio. JM chose public radio, because it was a unique experience. When JM came back from England, NPR was not started yet. So, JM held out and eventually NPR chose a president. That person hired JM, who became NPR’s first employee. JM offered an overview of the first few months at NPR, including how he and others tried to think through and implement making NPR different than educational and commercial radio.
00:38:22 - JM focused on his last year at NPR; he described the difference between NPR and PBS and how that led to an anti-NPR backlash by large public radio stations. At this time the man in charge of WHA in Madison, Ron Bornstein, wanted JM to come and lead the radio arm of WHA. JM realized that the big changes coming at NPR would probably leave him out of a job, so he took the job at WHA. JM was at WHA when the “coup” at NPR happened.
00:45:17 - Reeves then asked follow-up questions based on JM’s narrative. They included NPR’s location in Washington, DC; his recent book, Listener Supported; his dissertation, including how he used some of it in his book; and the name of the other person (JM couldn’t remember) who earned the fellowship and what happened to him.
00:50:15 - Reeves then asked about JM’s memories of campus protests of the 1960s and 1970s. JM resided on three different campuses in the mid- to late-1960s (Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin). He focused in on his time at Madison, including a 1968 protest that involved race not Vietnam. JM wasn’t here in 1967 during the Dow riots; this thought led him to recall the Kent State (Ohio) shootings in 1970. JM was in England in May 1970, but he read about Kent State protests in Madison in a London paper.
00:56:07 - While in Madison with WHA in the late 1960s, his charge was to be involved “here and now” in the news. He didn’t make a lot of friends with the establishment with this style of reporting and commenting on the news. This memory led JM to describe the reorganization of the UW system, which put WHA under UW–Extension; he furnished his comments on why public TV and radio went under the extension arm. This story led Reeves and JM to discuss the current blogosphere.
01:02:20 - The interview shifted to JM’s memories of Madison during his year at WHA. He described where he and his family lived and noted his first trip to Madison, while an undergrad at U of MI. When he left in 1969, he felt Madison was a place he could return to. This memory led JM to return to his professional crossroads: whether to enter academia as a professor or to enter into national public radio.
01:07:41 - JM offered his memories of the UW campus in 1968 and today (2007). He noted that the Sterling Hall bombing basically ended the “majority” student protests. Students are far more subdued, looking to get their degree and get a job. JM turned to how public TV/radio had moved into Vilas Hall between 1967 and 1976, which led him to discuss the creation of University Square, which is a multi-use facility (scheduled to finish in 2008) located next to Vilas Hall.
01:14:11 - The interviewer then asked JM to compare UW and public radio in 1967 and 1976. He described the attitude of public radio long-time employees in 1967; he told a story about a retreat at Mt. Horeb in 1967, which turned out to be very unpleasant. JM didn’t see those people as forward thinking. He did not stay on campus in 1969, because he felt frustrated by his colleagues’ attitudes. This led to JM’s comments about what a campus loses when its students are more subdued.
01:24:32 - JM began by discussing growing up in Detroit in 1950s. He said it was the “golden age of Detroit.” He did note that by late 1950s/1960s in Ann Arbor, the student protest movement had begun. Those were focused on race; Vietnam protests did not start in the mid to late 1960s. He noted that at U of MI most of the student protesters were from the East Coast. When asked he detailed the difference between the eastern and Midwestern students at Ann Arbor.
01:30:00 - In 1960 JM saw both JFK and Nixon before the election. He noted that he appeared in a Life Magazine article in 1960 when added a whistle stop for Vice President Nixon. He also appeared in a 1964 campaign photo while attending an event for President Johnson. JM then noted why he named his documentary, while working at Flint, “The Fifth Man,” and who his mentors were during his college years. Now, while JM does teach, he does try to put himself in a mentoring role.
01:36:44 - In 1963 JM interned at NASA, which was a “grand time,” because NASA was at a peak moment. JM attended the March on Washington but left before MLK spoke; they watch his speech in an air-conditioned drug store. JM mentioned some other items during his summer in Washington; he was back at Ann Arbor when JFK was assassinated. He recalled his feelings about the assassination, as well as his memories of Tom Hayden’s opinions of both JFK and RFK’s deaths.
01:42:19 - JM left NPR in 1976 to move to WHA in Madison to become the radio’s station manager. JM then detailed how his BBC internship and his NPR work shaped his vision for WHA. His vision became dual service: classical music on one channel, and information (news) on the other. NPR’s leadership liked it, but the local stations did not. Bornstein came to WHA before JM and hired him. Bornstein made waves on the TV side; Bornstein wanted JM to shake up the radio side.
01:52:03 - JM offered an overview of the Wisconsin Radio Network before he arrived as station manager in 1976, including the pre-TV years of WHA. He talked about the cleaving between WHA-TV & UW—Madison versus the Educational Communication Board; this tension spilled over into the radio side; there was WHA-AM and the Wisconsin Radio Network, which was the statewide FM stations.
02:00:24 - So, in 1976 WHA radio, both the WHA and ECB, had antiquated ideas about public radio. JM came in with the dual service idea. JM worked with Paul Norton of the ECB to provide dual service to Madison with the AM (talk) and FM (music) stations, calling it WPR. The other statewide FM stations would get a “mixed” service.
02:06:14 - When JM and Norton announced the dual service idea in Madison, there was some initial criticisms. On top of the dual service, WPR want fundraising, and JM got Norton to set up a neutral, third-party, which would be the fundraising arm. Another aspect of the new WPR became personalities, not announcers reading scripts. JM eliminated the idea of a writer, producer, and announcer; those three jobs (people) would be done by one. The “personality” would own the program.
02:15:09 - JM wanted WPR (talk) to be “all ATC all day.” He desired a seamless service, multiple magazine-style pieces, coming from DC and WI, during WPR AM’s radio day. He thought it was a good idea, but it wasn’t executed well. The interviewer then began follow-up questions with JM’s thoughts about how this new service would reach more people with more quality program, albeit the pieces would be shorter. JM said he looked at the radio diaries, and people didn’t listen to radio in large chunks.
02:24:58 - JM elaborated on how the pre-1976 staff mainly read material; they lack the mindset to run a program in JM’s post-1976 vision, with a staff person writing material, interviewing guests, and running the equipment. JM implemented his vision sooner than anticipated because of new staff and the retirement and/or death of staff members. Bornstein also “cleared the decks” in a number of situations, which aided JM in implementing his dual service vision.
02:31:27 - The Capital Times ran an article in the late 1970s, criticizing this dual service. JM offered his memories of the reasons why they ran the piece. When asked by the interviewer, he also discussed an additional aspect of the article: WPR’s intent to spend money advertising this change throughout the Madison metro area; JM noted that this money came from sources other than general funds. The interviewer and JM talked about how “radical” ideas in the 1970s public radio was standard practice today.
02:36:41 - The WPR AM service could also operate from dawn to dusk. JM offered a science lesson on the difference between AM and FM waves. In the evening a few AM stations were allowed to turn up their signal, allowing them to broadcast at night, but WPR AM was not one of those stations. The interviewer touched on a 1980 article where the university’s leadership criticized WPR for publishing pieces about the TA strike. JM talked about the relationship between the university and public radio.
02:44:24 - JM concluded with his thoughts about the next interviews, which would focus on the key topics of the 1980s, including moving from “all ATC all day” to call-in shows and expanding the dual service to around the state.
02:46:26 - The interviewer mentioned JM’s book, Listener Supported, which offered a history of public radio in the U.S. JM talked about his attitude during the early years of ATC, which was providing analysis after the fact and why he felt that way. JM also offered his memories of why All Things Considered was set up to offer news summaries but focus on analysis and summaries.
02:52:21 - When asked JM discussed how two major events in the early 1970s—Vietnam and Watergate—helped ATC in its mission to offer analysis and interpretation of those now historic events. These thoughts led the interviewer and JM to compare the early 1970s to the early to mid 2000s with the Iraq War and criticisms of the Bush administration, focusing on how NPR’s now mainstream approach led them to question these 21st Century event less critically.
02:59:23 - When JM came to WHA in 1976 he brought three ideas: the magazine program, dual service, and grassroots radio. He offered a brief overview of why he felt those ideas were important to inject into WHA. JM and public radio, in general, wanted a strong connection but a balanced approach, meaning not talking down to the audience. By the early 1980s, JM realized that “all ATC all day” would not work. WPR AM shifted to three, one-hour call-in shows.
03:08:02 - JM and WPR did get criticism from people in academia; JM offered examples and how he and Bornstein dealt with them. The criticisms, JM felt, fell under ideas of who would control the content; JM and WPR knew they would shape the content. JM offered how the dual service worked with the shift to call-in programs.
03:12:14 - The interview shifted to JM return to NPR in the 1980s, first on the NPR board in 1982 then as a temporary staffer in the financial crisis of late 1982/1983. JM focused on the financial crisis, offering his opinions on the reasons for the fiscal problems, particularly on why the federal budget cuts affected NPR more than the member stations on how NPR looked to entrepreneurial activities without money to fund them. While on the board in early 1983, JM voted for major cuts on two occasions.
03:21:12 - The board decided to bring in interim management: Bornstein as CEO and JM as head of programming. JM offered an overview of the plan to get NPR out of the red for 1983 and make budget cuts to operate out of the red in 1984 and beyond. JM worked in DC from May to August 1983; he offered an overview of his other 1980s NPR activities, including chairing the board from 1985-1988 and assisting in the change at NPR from full CPB funding to member station support.
03:30:54 - JM discussed another change with NPR’s member funding. Since member stations did not need to buy all their programs from NPR, larger member stations created programs that they marketed to other member stations. At WPR the main program that went national was Whad’Ya Know?, but JM also mentioned other national shows, such as Prairie Home Companion, Car Talk, and other WPR shows that went national in the 1990s: Zorba Pastor on Your Health, Calling All Pets, and To the Best of our Knowledge.
03:36:14 - When asked about a typical day, JM focused on a typical day in the mid-1980s after he returned to WPR. He received a joint appointment from ECB and the UW extension system (?); he moved his office to ECB. He would spend his time with NPR, since he was board chair, and with outreach and development. This idea led JM to note that public radio almost always benefited when Republican administrations threatened to cut funding, because people called in and donated.
03:44:59 - When asked about an article about WPR news that appeared in Isthmus in the late 1980s, JM offered his memories about the event, particularly about the main foil in the article, News Director Monika Petkus. JM noted that Petkus did rub staff the wrong way; some of those staff moonlighted by writing for Isthmus, which led to this article. JM offered a brief history of Petkus’ tenure at WPR.
03:59:09 - JM resigned as NPR board chair in 1988. He noted that he rejoined the board in the 1990s to be the “cranky old man” on the board. Mitchell final thoughts returned to the statewide dual service and described how dealing with three budgets (UW, ECB, non-profit Wisconsin Public Radio Association) allowed for flexibility, although JM did say that three budgets did make things complex. JM offered the reason why he moved his office out of the ECB offices.
03:59:45 - JM started this interview by summarizing the 1980s—including fund raising and bringing in new stations into the dual service—before moving into the “discrete story” of his time at WPR in the 1990s. By the late 1980s, JM had left the board at NPR, meaning he could bring his full attention to WPR and a major concern: the number of listeners had not increased for quite awhile. JM hired two men to conduct polls and focus groups to find out how best to increase listeners.
04:07:49 - JM and the staff created two services: news and music on one, Vilas Talk on the other. The latter service was called The Ideas Network, which gave WPR programs that they owned. JM explained why owning a service was important. JM detailed the two services and offered the problems that arose, including JM’s story of taking his wife up north to get away from Madison and WPR for a weekend. At the table next to JM and his wife sat three couples who lambasted WPR.
04:12:54 - JM discussed the aftermath of the two “new” services: the AM station did not lose audience and the FM station gained new audience. Also, WPR saved money by not having to buy All Things Considered and Morning Edition, which they injected into the local talk shows. This change led to the first time that the media portrayed JM as the villain. But after the first pledge drive, the controversy over the changed died down.
04:16:55 - Dropping the opera in 1993 became the next big controversy for JM. He felt and read research that having live opera did not benefit the station. JM’s station manager announced the change several months before it happened. This early announcement led to a major uproar from Madison’s opera listening community (as well as the Metropolitan Opera’s leadership in NYC), including a good writer from The Capital Times, who wrote a front-page story about it, which included JM’s phone number.
04:24:52 - The aftermath of the opera led Mitchell to take a more egalitarian approach, getting the staff more engaged in the decision making process. So, JM created some teams to deal with specific types of programs. Around 1996 Whad’Ya Know peaked (?) in its popularity, creating a bidding war between NPR and Public Radio International. In the aftermath of this war, WPR received the show, Car Talk, at no cost. WPR had a locally produced car show, hosted by Matt Joseph.
04:31:19 - JM detailed what happened when Joseph took his firing to the media and to the legislature. It led to at least one, big newspaper article, as well as a legislative audit. On top of that, there was a legislative hearing that WPR choose not to attend, where JM received more flak. Joseph did not get his program back on WPR, but this confrontation led to Mitchell deciding to retire from WPR and look to start teaching in the journalism school.
04:37:53 - JM told the story of the 1990s in this way was not only chronological order but also because one confrontation led to another. JM told his bosses that he would leave WPR and teach in the journalism school; they kept this move quiet for quite awhile. JM’s retirement announcement coincided with the 80th anniversary of educational/public radio in Madison. JM then noted that the audience increased to the level he wanted before he left.
04:41:29 - The interviewer then moved to follow-up questions, including the name of the station manager in the 1990s (Greg Schnirring [?]) and the way that he and JM meshed during the 1990s. JM then discussed his thoughts on his immediate predecessor, Dana Davis Rehm; JM thought Rehm was a very good choice for the time. After Rehm moved onto a different job, GS took over as station manager, until he moved onto a different job.
04:49:16 - Every controversial decision, according to JM, made during the 1990s was a correct one, so he does feel some vindication, in hindsight, about the station’s 1990s moves. When asked by the interviewer about the infamous “dumbing down” memo, JM offered his memories of this event. JM’s thoughts on this document focused on the decline in classical music on public radio and on GS’s work as program director.
04:58:05 - The interview shifted to JM’s teaching career at UW—Madison. The interviewer started with JM’s memories about his first teaching experiences. He felt relieved to move away from the WPR stress; he doesn’t listen to WPR much anymore, because he cannot help but offer a critique. After retirement JM and Bornstein did a lot of consulting, which he enjoyed. JM felt scared to return to teaching; he detailed the various classes he taught, including how he enjoyed putting a course together.
05:09:14 - The interviewer returned to the idea of mentoring. JM talked about two specific graduate students he mentored recently—Rob Rabe [former UW Oral History Program student assistant] and Dave Park. JM noted that he cannot officially advise graduate students, so he has worked with them through his classes. He offered on overview of what both Rabe and Park currently do. JM discussed several people he mentored during his time at WPR, including Michael Feldman.
05:15:54 - When asked about the awards he won, JM focused on three awards he won: The Peabody Award for All Things Considered, the Edward Elson Award, and the Edward R. Murrow Award. He offered his overview on how he ended up with the Murrow award, including whom he felt worked to get him that award.
05:21:50 - JM moved to a description of how and why he wrote the book, Listener Supported, which he wrote as a history of educational/public radio. He thought of many different types of books before settling on Listener Supported and told an anecdote about how one publisher liked his manuscript but no editor on his staff wanted to do it. His book and another book, written by a former UW—Madison graduate student, do comprise the two comprehensive histories of public radio.
05:29:15 - When asked by the interviewer to craft his obituary or put words on a tombstone, JM focused on the following: a shaper of public radio; first producer of All Things Considered; creator of a unique public radio experience at WPR; teacher of Journalism 201; and husband, father, and grandfather.
