Transcript
Index
00:00:51 - Laxova remarked that children are aware of more than people think; and that she was aware for years before Kindertransport that her parents and community members were nervous because they were Jewish and therefore different. She noted an occasion when a fellow student blamed “you Jews” for Czechoslovakia’s problems and wondering about why she was different. Her mother, though, was shocked that she understood who Hitler was and what he was doing.
00:05:37 - A second thing Laxova wanted to add was that she never felt rejected by her parents—the explained that they would try to follow her and that they were saving her life. Laxova told the story of her mother hearing about PM Lansbury, hearing from Grace Beaton, the letter from the Daniels and the British Committee for Children giving details of her transport.
00:10:28 - Laxova explained that they didn’t really know about the work of Nicholas Winton until much later—she again told the story of Winton’s trip to Prague, observing that children weren’t being helped, and establishing the British Committee for Children. She explained Winton’s networking process and his connection with the Quakers, who published the newsletter that interested the Daniels in helping Laxova. She discussed Winton’s efforts to “barter” with families to find homes for children.
00:17:58 - Laxova said Winton also traveled to Prague, where parents begged him to help their children. Laxova recalled Winton’s negotiations with the Gestapo and the Home Office that each child had to have a visa and £50 support from someone in order that they not burden the state.
00:21:57 - Laxova also recalled that the transports could only leave so long as Britain wasn’t at war with Germany. She discussed the final transport, of approx. 250 children, which no one knows anything about. Laxova said that this was her third observation—that many Holocaust survivors were silent about their experiences, so she didn’t have “survivor-guilt.” But when she returned to Czechoslovakia, her whole generation of peers were lost.
00:28:34 - She mentioned having letters which make obvious that she was forgetting Czech by Christmas. She talked about learning English and the letters stopping in 1941, except 25-word lettergrams, which had to go through unoccupied countries.
00:32:20 - Laxova related that her parents were later arrested and interrogated (and maybe tortured) for the lettergrams, asking what “Renata” meant in terms of spy code. Her parents were released eventually because her father was Slovakian; they both had to find their way back to Slovakia and survived there, where her father survived in camps, and her mother took on a false identity. During that period she didn’t hear from her parents. But years later she received a package and letter from her parents.
00:38:25 - Laxova talked about the decades of silence, during which people forgot about the events of those years, including Winton himself. She related again the story of his activities becoming public and gaining renown. Laxova talked about one boy from Brno who happened to return to the same high school as her, who helped her relearn Czech and became a prominent engineer in later years in Israel. He is featured in The Power of Good, a film about Winton.
00:42:17 - Laxova referred to a Kindertransport Association, most of whose members were German and Austrian children evacuated to Britain after Kristallnacht—she explained Britain’s efforts to help Jewish children. She mentioned her dislike of the politicking that happens in the organization.
00:44:10 - Laxova remembered meeting her foster family and “little brother” (Harry) in Manchester after meeting her father’s employer at Liverpool St. Station. She recalled being surprised that they could pronounce her name; that they were only in Flixston for one month before war broke out; and that Daniels had arranged for other Czech Jews to visit so she could hear her language (these were later interred on Man).
00:50:34 - Laxova again talked about being evacuated to Cumberland to the Friends’ Manor School, which has since become well-known. She remembered the school grounds being beautiful, but breaking down when she figured out that only the children were staying. Daniels relented and allowed Mrs. Daniels to stay in town with the children, who acquainted each other by walking to school. The school hosted evacuees and refugees, many of whom didn’t like one another.
00:55:28 - She reviewed the April move from Manor School to Shell’s Morecambe headquarters, near Lancaster. She marveled that the Germans never bombed the oil refinery, and found out later that the Nazis were saving it as a resource when they defeated Britain. She remembered doing well in school, getting a scholarship to a grammar school and doing well on the O levels. She felt grateful to have gotten such a good education.
01:00:40 - She responded that school and reading was her refuge, and she loved it and was conscientious. She talked about going to concerts for the headmaster’s class. She said at the beginning, very much so, and discussed the Czech book her parents had given her called Happy Childhood, but later she said she lived for school. She discussed Edna Daniels’ poor treatment and speculated why that was so.
01:04:54 - She mentioned liking math and languages—Latin, English, German, French—more than the sciences. Laxova laughed and said she considered herself who she was—she told an anecdote about not knowing which country she belonged to and talked about loving Britain, America, and Israel.
01:07:51 - Laxova remarked about not wanting to return and loving Britain. She discussed her naiveté and her mother’s astuteness in trying to reacquaint with Renata. She told the story of her mother coming to visit England and hating it because of the foreignness and Edna Daniels’ poor treatment. She remarked about having “a fortune in my hands” with great university entrance scores and a British passport, but moving back.
01:13:04 - Laxova reviewed her mother’s efforts to find a Czech school where Renata could go, and the two administrators who understood the situation. She talked about the excellent education she’d received both in Britain and Czechoslovakia. Laxova discussed the differences between the American and European systems of university education.
01:17:46 - She recalled her father wanting her to study something “practical” because it had saved Jews lives in the Holocaust, though she wanted to study language. So she applied to medical school. Communists took over in 1948, during her 6th year of grammar school. She remembered the experience, and being surprised and disappointment, and reviewed the political maneuvering involved.
01:22:21 - She said that “the world was open” and while some understood the implications of Soviet liberation during WWII, most people expected Czecho-slovakia to continue on its pre-WWII democratic, wealthy, industrial, culturally rich path. She talked about her father’s arrest by the Nazis and then arrest by the Communists for working for the same family. Laxova thought this was a fair assessment, because of how integrated the Jewish community was. She described the Czechs as opportunistic.
01:28:31 - Laxova quipped about failing her first “rigorosa” for anatomy class, because she was used to studying coming easily. She retold the story of her interview by the Communists, and her future anatomy professor saving her.
01:33:17 - Laxova talked about how she got into genetics—and retold the story of seeing the destruction of Mendel’s statue. From this incident she learned about the philosophy of communists on “Morganism/Mendelism” and environment. When she arrived at medical school, she questioned the wisdom of not learning genetics, and later went to secret lectures on it. She reviewed being forced to learn Russian and Marxism-Leninism, and professors having to report on this.
01:39:38 - Laxova talked about denunciation and the broadcast of mock trials; about having to work in factories or farms on break. She discussed how she decided to pursue pediatrics and reviewed the story of not being allowed to get a red diploma (highest honors) for political reasons. She talked about Western affiliations—her education, Harry visiting, and the Daniels’ gift of The Lancet.
01:44:15 - Laxova reviewed how after graduation she was given an assignment far away from Brno for political reasons, as well as the change of title “graduated children’s physician” rather than “doctor.” She discussed volunteering in Brno and later being offered a job at the children’s hospital there. She critiqued the mentality of communism, forcing everyone to be manual laborers.
01:49:21 - Laxova discussed the conversion of part of the hospital to a research facility, and she suggested doing genetics, which was unpopular at the time. She recalled reading in Western journals and feeling they didn’t need to reinvent the wheel. She remarked that “nice people agreed with me” and that the atmosphere among doctors at the hospital was wonderful.
01:56:32 - Laxova reviewed the research carried on by the IPRB, which she described as simple, but productive—surveying all of the pediatric population of southern Moravia for incidence and prevalence of common genetic diseases, and inviting pairs of twins to the city to be involved in research testing and also cultural activities. The parents would then get a full report of their children’s health and psychology.
02:01:55 - Laxova discussed the overwhelming response from parents to their invitation—many wanted their kids to have a trip to the city. She also reviewed how the institute personnel worked together to prepare for the six weeks of 20 pairs of twins each—over 5 years, 600+ pairs of twins. She recalled being ready in 1968 to analyze and publish the material, but the Communists invaded and the material was lost; though her PhD resulted from the material.
02:07:08 - She went on to discuss other projects that were part of the research—blood type, hand and footprints, voice recordings, colored vision. She recalled the academy of sciences actually giving them an award; and she talked about the people in Prague being jealous of them, though they’re now the leaders in genetics. She also discussed research on incidence and development of diabetes, though the research didn’t track long enough to see real results.
02:14:14 - Laxova said that in the grand scheme, data loss wasn’t a huge issue for her. She talked about writing a pamphlet before she left about the research, so the word was out about the work; but when they left they were more concerned about making a basic living. When she returned in 1984, she made a cursory look, but was told it was gone. She talked about returning to see her parents and being interrogated every day—the point being that science was not uppermost on her mind.
02:20:14 - Laxova mentioned again that her PhD was also a result of that data, and that this research had been publicized even in the West. She here reviewed the substance of her PhD (amylases in twins); and noted that her mentor in England [Penrose] encouraged her to continue working with children with retardation.
02:26:25 - Laxova remarked that she loved what she was doing in Brno, and talked about how the Communists had since allowed scientists to work on genetics. She retold the story of the lab technician who she believed was an informer because of his economic status; and discussed being asked to join the Communist Party, and refusing to do so. She speculated she wasn’t punished because they didn’t desire her membership.
02:31:08 - Laxova remembered the Communists knowing of the Daniels’ family, and people mistrusting her when she was allowed to go to England in 1966. She discussed the “Prague Spring” of 1968, Dubcek, student protests, and it being a happy time for her.
02:35:00 - She recalled being on vacation in August 1968 and entertaining the Penroses (to see Mendel) and Stamps (working on sheep disease). She talked about her husband Tibor being invited by Prof. Stamp to visit England in July 1968 and taking their daughter Daniela with him. She reviewed her and Anita having visas to go as well, but staying home to vacation; and how she overheard on the radio that the Warsaw Pact had invaded Czechoslovakia.
02:42:22 - Laxova reviewed taking Anita and trying to get tickets to Brno to get their passports; discussed the politics leading up to the invasion; and reviewed the efforts of Czech resistance to Soviet trains. She remembered having to walk 25 km to Brno due to torn up train tracks, people helping one another, and staying with her parents for 4 days before she could get out—she also discussed the difficulty getting out of the country.
02:47:32 - She talked about the presence of the Warsaw Pact in the city; the confusion of the troops; and hearing about a bus leaving for Vienna on Sunday morning. She remembered making the decision to sacrifice her parent’s generation in favor of her children. She described saying goodbye to her parents, the experience of leaving, and the Czech government’s sponsorship of the buses leaving the country because of their hatred of the Russians.
02:53:00 - Anita cried bitterly and was very afraid of leaving. Laxova was just resolved—she talked about fixing on the image of her passport. She described the trip to Vienna and the hospitality of the Austrians—the Czech refugee centers. She talked about calling Harry Daniels and her husband and about borrowing money for a train trip to London.
02:59:06 - Laxova described arriving in England and reviewed the reaction of the customs agent when she said she wanted to stay. She told about her husband waiting for her at Heathrow until he found out they were arriving by train; and talked about the hospitality of the Daniels, who put their children in a school. She also told the story of calling Dr. Penrose, against Tibor’s advice, and the Penrose’s hospitality to them.
03:04:32 - She recalled Penrose’s giving her a job immediately, as well as his advocacy for Tibor in his veterinary career. She talked about her job at the Kennedy-Galton Center; she discussed Penrose’s highly distinguished career, begun as a mathematician and medical geneticist. Although retired, he continued work on mental retardation and received the Kennedy Award (along with Harry Waisman), which funded the Center.
03:10:01 - Laxova went on to discuss Penrose’s foundation of the Kennedy-Galton Center at Harperbury, which stemmed from his love of working with patients. She also remembered the Penroses leaving a list of telephone numbers while they vacationed—all the offices Laxova needed to contact to get their visas in order. She talked about her first days on the job with Penrose. She talked about being very homesick when alone, but said going from England to the US was harder than from Czechoslovakia to England.
03:16:36 - Laxova thought working with Penrose gave her a huge advantage and described his lab as “a crossroads for the world.” She spoke of Penrose visiting her parents while at a conference in Brno, returning and giving Renata a hug from her parents, though he was a world-famous scholar.
03:21:29 - She remembered people with genetic disorders seeking out Penrose, sometimes very famous people. Laxova responded that the two most significant parts of her work were 1) surveying every woman who’d been at Harperbury who had become pregnant to gather empiric data on the genetics of non-specific mental retardation.
03:27:59 - She continued to relate the other significant project: 2) looking at the etiology of mental retardation in the childhood population by surveying schools to the northwest of London. She thought Penrose died March 1972—she remembered it being very sudden. She talked about her parents being in England and breaking the news to her.
03:32:00 - Laxova discussed applying for the job of leading the Center, as well as another colleague who’d moved to Canada, but returned to apply. She got the job and again explained what “consultant in clinical genetics” meant—the highest rank for a clinician—and that she was the first in her area. She reviewed her two important projects at Kennedy-Galton.
03:37:01 - Laxova recalled her husband not being happy, and thought she was the most happy there. She talked about her daughter’s musical and social activities, though they were unhappy at the beginning. She thought she and Tibor may have not attended to their daughters’ feelings enough, but recalled just trying to survive.
03:40:07 - She talked about a colleague of Tibor’s calling to inform him of a job in the US in 1972, and about Tibor never feeling like he fit in with the elite country-gentleman cadre of veterinarians in Britain. She related the abruptness of his acceptance of the Ft. Collins job and their emotions at the time.
03:46:18 - She recalled that two years later, Tibor didn’t get tenure because students complained about his English. She remembered his admiration of WI because of the dairy industry and his being offered a job there by a colleague. She talked about his opening a veterinary practice in Darlington, WI, coming to England for visits, but loving the US. She retold the story of Daniela turning down an Oxford appointment because it wasn’t in medicine, but Slavic studies.
03:52:58 - Laxova talked about the difference between the European and American systems of medical school. In Europe, one didn’t need a bachelor’s to go to med school, but can essentially go from HS. She talked about Daniela coming to UW as a sophomore, talked about their naiveté, and described the living arrangements for that first year.
03:56:58 - She described being offered a job in clinical genetics by John Opitz at the Waisman Center through Cedric Carter. Laxova recalled liking the campus and having read Jim Crow’s work, but hoping that she wouldn’t have to leave England. She left for UW on September 20, 1975.
04:01:16 - She said she initially started on a Brittingham grant formerly occupied by a German geneticist. She described some of the faculty and facilities at the Waisman Center. She was initially an asst. professor. She also discussed the difficulty of commuting—when winter came, they decided to buy a house in Madison. She described the process of buying a house near UW and near the lake.
04:07:12 - Laxova described her appointment in pediatrics and genetics, and reviewed her pioneering work in prenatal diagnosis—all outpatient at the Waisman Center. She discussed the federally funded DTU as a University Affiliated Facility and the teaching, training, and evaluating functions of the DTU. The facility had nine components, one of which was pediatrics, all of which evaluated a patient who came in with mental retardation.
04:12:00 - She discussed how evaluation of patients worked in the DTU and her (and Joan Burns’) component in the evaluation; and also going with John Opitz to evaluate children at Central Colony (for mental retardation), where he delineated and named syndromes. Follow up: Was Central Colony similar to Harperbury? Answer: There were more children at CC.
04:16:13 - Laxova discussed also spending time in the genetics department, where they were doing testing and description of genetic disorders. She quipped about meeting Crow and saying “Do you know Crow?” But she didn’t meet Susman until he became chair.
04:18:58 - Talk about the cultural adjustment coming to the US. Laxova told anecdotes about the lack of decorum, the differences in ways of speech, the bigness of things, and superficial friendliness.
04:23:59 - She talked about fads in American medicine and the privatization of medicine. She then returned to discussing the way patients were evaluated at Waisman, which she hated because she felt it was overly administrative. So she requested to start doing prenatal diagnosis (amniocentesis and alphafetoprotein, later ultrasound).
04:29:00 - Laxova discussed how she organized prenatal diagnostics—first she organized the Genetic Contact Network, using a grant from the Developmental Disabilities Council to establish contact people in each WI county who would be able to a) recognize people who were in need of genetic counseling and b) refer these to their offices. From this, an outpatient clinic evolved and regional contacts requested outreach clinics, from which Genetic Services Network arose.
04:34:14 - When her grant was extended to providing prenatal diagnosis, she also made amniocentesis analysis available at Meriter. Some were very positive, but there were others who equated prenatal diagnosis with abortion. She discussed fighting this misconception with education. She talked about offering services initially to the 6 perinatal centers; and receiving some nasty letters back accusing the Network of Nazi-like operations on children.
04:41:02 - Laxova claimed, against the naysayers, that prenatal diagnosis increased the likelihood of people having babies. She talked about risks with Down’s syndrome, older mothers, and anencephaly (which was treatable with a reagent that wasn’t available in WI). She talked about allowing parents to see babies with birth defects so they could see what was normal about it.
04:46:06 - She said initially she spoke to just physicians, but eventually nurses, social workers, and even parents began coming. She remembered telling students that there is always someone in the audience to whom this is a personal issue; but she noted that no one knew about genetics, so she had an open field. She quipped about getting an angry call from Ben Peckham who thought Laxova was usurping his authority.
04:51:28 - Laxova talked about gradually looking at incidence of mental retardation in the population, using Central Colony, and realizing that hundreds of thousands of people needed genetic services. So they established a network of clinics—she talked about the implications of this in various places because Catholic hospitals didn’t endorse abortion. She talked about Opitz leaving and Jurgen Hermann establishing his own private genetics practice in Milwaukee.
04:55:14 - She remembered testifying in the mid-1970s, showing statistics that reassurance increased healthy pregnancy, and educating the legislature that this was not like Nazi science. She recalled one day being told that the clinic would close because Meriter would no longer perform abortions, and later that day meeting with NOW leaders to cancel the regulations.
05:01:59 - In the 1980s, she taught, did research, administered, and organized—she talked about receiving a grant to administer the Great Lakes Regional Genetics Group, part of the Council of Regional Networks (CORN). She discussed how she developed committees for facets of clinical genetics services, which communicated among states.
05:08:11 - She talked about the pathbreaking work of GLaRGG in assessing metabolic labs—prior to this CLIA, which was a federal assessment and certification organization, certified all labs, but had no expertise in this area, so GLaRGG pioneered this regulatory role. She talked again about the Teratogen committee under this umbrella group, explaining what teratogens were.
05:13:03 - Laxova went into further detail about the teratogen committee; she discussed responding to patients questions about what might harm the fetus, and eventually documenting this. She talked about also writing guidelines for the country for genetic services. She noted that funding was withdrawn and all the organization they’d achieved was lost, and thought her most important legacy was that there were many people in WI who knew something about genetics.
05:17:08 - She enjoyed teaching courses and having students observe sessions. Two scenarios dictated how she broke bad news—when the ultrasound revealed something and when she’d diagnose a newborn suspected of a genetic condition. She always reassured couples that it was nothing they did to cause this.
05:22:12 - Sometimes she’d take a med student or genetic counselor with her; and she instilled the importance of how to talk to families in her students. She again talked about how much her students in medical genetics and clinical genetics enjoyed her bringing her patient-families in to talk to class.
05:26:16 - Laxova described how she would conduct her initial 2-hour session with a family: asking how the family saw the problem, looking at the child, explaining what they would do, and discussing how the family would cope. She talked about having to answer the question “What would you do if you were me?” She always tried to give the family as much information as possible.
05:30:03 - Laxova again explained hating when doctors would misdiagnose a genetic disorder and having to try to convince parents their baby would be okay. She also discussed trying to engage fathers and grandparents in the interviews.
05:33:09 - She returned to telling the anecdote of a Downs’ syndrome family visiting her medical genetics class; the mother’s response to one question made it obvious that she’d blocked out all the time Laxova had spent working with her when her baby was born. She discussed having to fight early on to have children with disorders operated on by surgeons.
05:39:30 - Laxova talked about cancer work as a “replacement baby,” because of the story of how Meriter decided to no longer have the prenatal clinic through UW. She recalled not being part of the Meriter-St.Mary’s controversy, and talked about the woman brought in by Meriter to work in the genetics clinic.
05:47:31 - Laxova talked about “needing something new,” since they were no longer involved in prenatal genetics and high-risk OB/GYN. At the same time, the first genes linked to cancer were being diagnosed. She talked about establishing a clinic to take family histories and about the incidence of breast cancer in women. She talked about both genetic and random forms of cancer and trying to reassure women who were worried they were at risk.
05:52:20 - She talked about two genes implicated in breast cancer risk, but mutations can take many forms. She discussed how the tumor suppressing genes must be absent from both parents for the cancer to occur.
05:56:22 - Generally women would come with a lump or suspicion. She talked about oncology specialization and the eventual branching out of the clinic into other genetic cancers. Laxova discussed letters they sent out to both patients and physicians, and talked about ethical issues that arose from researchers not revealing results of their research to patients involved.
06:02:52 - Because it was research and the implications of the data were unknown, she probably wouldn’t have been able to tell the families, but said this was not an issue anymore with advances in science. She then returned to talking about dealing with breast cancer patients, discussing risks versus reality; heightened surveillance through mammograms; early family planning. Individual psychology is very important; she talked, however, about teaching probabilities.
06:09:38 - In prenatal, geneticists were doing the diagnosing, where with cancer counseling was the most important component. Laxova talked about a screening that identifies 30+ disorders that is mandated; but many parents don’t know what the screening is.
06:16:21 - Prenatal screening, which raises ethical issues and is not generally done—people are screened for what they’re at risk for and then genetic testing is done if ultrasounds flag something abnormal. She again responded she didn’t know what she would do in their situation. But she recalled pledging with parents that they would spend as much time as it took to make the right decision for them.
06:22:20 - She said in some situations she was confident what she would do; and discussed always showing the parents their severely malformed baby. She talked about making parents who wanted an abortion go home for 3 weeks to think over their decision. She never wanted a parent to regret a decision they made, so they gave parents as much information as they had.
06:26:09 - Laxova remarked that now, with much more sophisticated testing available, some advocate more directive counseling. She talked about the tendency of people at risk for Huntington’s (which is 100% fatal) not to be tested genetically. Lange then asked what she thought about assisting in suicide for a Huntington’s patient, to which she responded that there are ways a physician can help, but not by assisting in suicide.
06:31:22 - Laxova talked about discussing the same issue with med students, whether they’d want to be tested for Huntington’s. She also talked about cases in which she could tell patients had Huntington’s before she even ran tests. She was depressed one night as an intern when 4 children died, but her boss was very nice about it. Reflecting on the question, she mentioned that if you can break bad news in a kind, understanding way, it is even rewarding to have this job.
06:37:42 - She told the story of an alcoholic mother who bore a fetal-alcohol syndrome child (and all the counselors wondered what Laxova would say to her), and even trying to comfort that mother. She said that the woman deserved kindness because it was her baby, and she didn’t want the mother to reject the baby.
06:42:23 - Laxova commented that it’s not fair; we simply don’t know why many of these cases happen. She speculated that one of the best pieces of research she’d done was about 72 couples who’d terminated a wanted pregnancy—why they’d not divorced; how they coped; how it affected subsequent pregnancies, etc. She thought she didn’t have enough time or energy to polish the piece; but she remarked that however sad, she like that part of her work, even the challenge of engaging the male.
06:49:51 - Laxova responded that Waisman was built as a UAF, funded from the Developmental Disabilities Act, family funds, and a Kennedy Award, for training professionals in caring for mental retardation. Other UAFs had different purposes. She talked about the buildings, 6th and 7th floor labs, and research being conducted in the building in 1975.
06:54:58 - She talked about the staff organization of Waisman—it was under the Graduate School, with appointments responsible to various departments. Her group was the genetics component of the DTU (which she explained again). She talked about Rich Heber, director of the Center, who she described as “a crook” who did little work, but was embezzling money. After Heber’s death, his successor Doland wanted to turn the Center into a research facility.
06:59:12 - Laxova said that, despite Doland’s efforts, she thought that the Center’s efforts were top-heavy and not productive. Because she didn’t have enough to do, she looked for other outlets like doing prenatal diagnosis. She again explained how her appointment worked, in both pediatrics and genetics. She talked about the trauma of having her license questioned, going to a hearing, being questioned about doing abortions, and being required to take the boards again. She failed the first time, her collea
07:07:11 - Laxova talked about starting the genetics counseling training program, and talked about the diversity of sources of funding through grants for genetic counselors. She discussed the growth of genetics counseling, working in prenatal and general clinics, to at one time 35 staff. She noted that the first person to be financially independent was John Wolf, who worked on metabolic disorders. This was the beginning of genetics being profitable.
07:14:21 - Laxova talked about the growth of the Waisman Center, where research is being conducted into stem cells, MRIs, and brain function. She talked again about the three directors of the Waisman Center, specifically Marcia Seltzer, the current director, who she thought ran it well; and discussed the board of the Center, many of whom are very good at raising money.
07:18:23 - Laxova noted that when she began scientists weren’t making money, but rather applying for enough to pursue their research. She noted that some scientific equipment needed to research were enormously expensive. She remarked on the motivation of some scientists being different from the past, and talked about her support of James Thomson’s research in stem cells. She commented on the selflessness of Crow and talked about his last slide in his presentations.
07:22:33 - She didn’t feel discriminated, but thought that her background caused this—first under the Communists, then as a refugee. She recalled dismissing getting involved in women’s groups on campus; and thought this was wrong. She retold the story of being informed how poorly paid she was. She didn’t care because she was used to the Communist system and the British system.
07:30:10 - She thought that overt discrimination was gone, but didn’t know if problems still exist. She talked about her daughters’ careers, one in pediatric cardiology and the other with cystic fibrosis. She thought that her challenges have made her richer, and she felt good about who she was, though she thought she should do more.
