Interview with Karl Kleeman

Partial Transcript: Hello, today's date is March 4th 2017 and we're at the VFW on East Lake Side in Madison...

Segment Synopsis: Introduction

Keywords: VFW

Partial Transcript: What was it like growing up in Madison before the war?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was it like growing up in Madison before the war? Answer: I went to West High School and graduated in ’41 and then I went onto vocational school to learn more about the printing trade. I was there nine months and then they called for an apprentice at the Capitol Times Newspaper in Madison and I worked there one year and then I was called into the service for three years for World War II.

Keywords: Capitol Times Newspaper; Germany; Madison; World War II; high school; immigration

Partial Transcript: You said your parents immigrated to the United States from Germany?

Segment Synopsis: Question: You said your parents immigrated to the United States from Germany?
Answer: Yes, my parents both came separately and they met in Detroit. They came in 1912 through Ellis Island. Madison was a lot smaller back then about 70,000, now it’s more than 220,000.

Keywords: Detroit; Ellis Island; Germany; Immigration; Madison

Partial Transcript: Did you like growing up in Wisconsin? Yes, I went to grade school in Oconomowoc...

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did you like growing up in Wisconsin?
Answer: I went to a grade school in Oconomowoc that’s halfway between Madison and Milwaukee. We went wherever my father would find a job, this was during the depression and jobs were hard to get. After grade school my father came back to Madison and worked at a place that’s changed names but once known as Ohio Chemical.

Keywords: Great Depression; Madison; Milwaukee; Oconomowoc; Ohio Chemical; Wisconsin

Partial Transcript: When did you first hear about WWII? Well I didn't think too much about it at the beginning because...

Segment Synopsis: Question: When did you first hear about WWII
Answer: I didn’t think too much about it at the beginning. My one brother went in June of 1941 before Pearl Harbor and my other brother went in in 1942 but I thought that the war would be over before they got to me. In January 1943 they called me and I was in WWII until the war ended.

Keywords: Pearl Harbor; World War II

Partial Transcript: How did you hear news about what was going on?

Segment Synopsis: Question: How did you hear news about what was going on? Did you get letters from your brothers or did you listen to the radio?
Answer: Not too much news, there wasn’t too much communication then, I worked for the newspaper for one year and they’d send me the newspaper once I went into service. Mail would get to us 2 to 3 months later so the news was old, because there was poor delivery of mail at that time.

Keywords: News; Newspaper; mail delivery

Partial Transcript: Did you ever hear from your brother's when they were away? Did they ever write home, or to your parents?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did you ever hear from your brothers? Did they write home?
Answer: Yes they wrote home. My two brothers met up in Africa. One was in the Army Air force and the other one was in the Army. I was in the Army. My one brother drove for a General so he had a jeep available. He asked about going to see our brother. He drove all over Africa trying to catch up to him but when he’d get near where he was at, he’d find out that they just shipped out, so he’d have to keep looking some more but they did finally meet in Africa.

Keywords: Africa; Air Force; Army; Family

Partial Transcript: Which General did your brother drive the Jeep for?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Which General did your brother drive for?
Answer: I don’t remember the name right now.

Keywords: Jeep; driving; general

Partial Transcript: What year were you born?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What year were you born?
Answer: July 23, 1923

Keywords: 1923; born

Partial Transcript: Did you like working as a printer before the war started? Was that an exciting experience getting the news?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did you like working as a printer? Was that an exciting experience, getting the news?
Answer: Yes, I enjoyed working for the paper until 1977. That’s because I enjoyed printing classes all during high school, but the last year of high school there were no more printing classes to take so I took a wood working course and made some furniture.

Keywords: high school; newspaper; printing

Partial Transcript: What did you do as a printer? How did that work then?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What did you do as a printer? How did that work then?
Answer: I took an apprenticeship to learn everything. I worked putting the pages together. On Sunday we’d have 10 society pages to put together so all day on Friday I’d be working on that. The society director would give me a page for how it should be laid out and we worked from that.

Keywords: apprenticeship; newspaper; printer

Partial Transcript: And that was in '42 you apprenticed with them?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Was it in 1942 that begin your apprenticeship?
Answer: Yes, In January of 1942 I started with the Capitol Times in Madison.

Keywords: 1942; apprenticeship

Partial Transcript: That was just after Pearl Harbor. When did you hear about Pearl Harbor?

Segment Synopsis: Question: When did you hear about Pearl Harbor?
Answer: I was going to occasional school at that time. That’s when we heard about Pearl Harbor. We had a big headline I think it was 3 or 4inch letters across the front page that said we had been attacked by the Japanese.

Keywords: Pearl Harbor; occasional school

Partial Transcript: Was anyone talking about it at the school or between you and your classmates?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Was anyone talking about it at school? Were you worried?
Answer: Yes, we talked about it and were worried about it a little too. We figured we’d probably be in the war helping to settle it, and then we were.

Keywords: Pearl Harbor

Partial Transcript: So you were drafted into the Army?

Segment Synopsis: Question: So you were drafted into the Army?
Answer: Into Army anti-aircraft artillery. Right after the Infantry went in, we went in and set up our 40mm guns for shooting at the Japanese planes.

Keywords: 40mm guns; Army; Japanese; anti-aircraft artillery; infantry; planes

Partial Transcript: And you were in the 485th Anti-aircraft artillery?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What division were you in?
Answer: I was in the 485th Anti-aircraft artillery division in Battery B. There were four batteries: Battery A was our supply battery and the other three were 8 gun crews per battery and 15 men per crew.

Keywords: 485th Anti-aircraft artillery; Battery B; crews

Partial Transcript: So how many men would work on each gun?

Segment Synopsis: Question: How many people would work on each gun?
Answer: All fifteen men. We had two anti-aircraft machine guns at the back of the 40mm guns because we couldn’t turn the 40mm gun around fast enough. At first we had water-cooled 50 caliber machine guns. One had to get the water going while the other was shooting. Later we had air-cooled guns with 4 guns on a quad mount so we could all shoot at once. Of course you had tracer bullets that helped you to see if you were getting to the target.

Keywords: 40mm guns; air-cooled guns; anti-aricraft; machine guns; target; tracer bullets

Partial Transcript: Did you get to know the people in your crew a lot?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did you get to know people on your crew a lot? Did you move around to other crews?
Answer: We were all on the same crew for the whole time. We all started as privates at Camp Hulen in Texas. We had one corporal from the old cadre that was in charge of us. They had to make the gun crews up and one would be made a Sergeant in charge the 15 crew, a Corporal and a T-Corporal in charge of the motor and power plant and a Corporal for the machine gun and the rest were privates and PFCs.

Keywords: Camp Hulen; PFCs; T-corporal; Texas; corporal; crew; privates

Partial Transcript: Did you stay in touch with any of them after the war?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did you stay in contact after the war?
Answer: For a little while. We got out in 1948, most of the people were from Chicago and had a reunion shortly later. I did know a Corporal in Milwaukee, he was in charge of me and I was in his wedding party when we came back.

Keywords: Chicago; Corporal; Milwaukee; reunion

Partial Transcript: So tell me about your training. Did you receive basic training?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Can you Tell me about your training?
Answer: I had Basic training in Camp Hulen in Texas. There were six man huts. Three double bunk beds, one set on each wall and the fourth side was the door going out. That’s the first time I heard about natural gas, in 1943. We had natural gas for our little stoves and we would have to have heat it to keep us warm. The six man huts had no insulation. We slept on a cot with no mattress but we had two blankets, one we had to put under us as well as on top to try and keep warm.

Keywords: Army; Camp Hulen; Texas; training

Partial Transcript: What was daily life in basic training like?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was daily life like in Basic Training?
Answer: We had to stay in our camp for 9 weeks. We were quarantined into the camp. During those 9 weeks, if we needed any supplies like toothpaste or a toothbrush we’d get marched down to the PX as a group to buy what we’d need and then they marched us back. Later we had some freedom to walk around the camp and even had a few days off when we’d go into town.

Keywords: life; training

Partial Transcript: While you were training were you learning different kinds of weapons?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What did you learn in Basic Training?
Answer: We learned how to march and how to work on the guns, even clean them. We had to learn how to clean them because when we went into battle they’d get covered in with cosmoline, a heavy grease. In the Philippines we pulled the guns with a duck boat and while the boat floated the guns would sink, getting filled with salt water, which had to be cleaned before they could fired.

Keywords: Cosmoline; Philippines; cleaning; guns; marching

Partial Transcript: Were you training then on the 40 mm or was it a rifle?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What weapons were you training then on then just 40mm guns?
Answer: Yes, the shell is about 15 to 16 inches long. We also had to qualify on the M1 rifle in target practice. I wasn’t too keen on it at first. The first time I shot a weapon was in the service. I didn’t know you had to hold the gun tight to your shoulder. The first time I shot it, I held it loosely and I thought I broke my shoulder, but I just bruised it real bad.

Keywords: 40mm guns; rifles; training

Partial Transcript: What were the people that you were training with like?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What were the people you were training with like?
Answer: They were from all different walks of life. We were all about the same age, 17-19 years old. I was 19 years old when I went in. You had to grow up in a hurry in the service.

Keywords: training

Partial Transcript: So you guys would say you'd go off into town on the few days off you had.

Segment Synopsis: Question: What did you do on your few days off?
Answer: We’d usually stay as a group because we didn’t know anyone in these towns. We’d have a one-day pass and then go back. We didn’t have much access to movies or things like that during training. We didn’t even have a radio to listen to in our 6 man huts.

Keywords: time off

Partial Transcript: And so after you left Camp Hulen in Texas when you finished basic training, you went to Camp Young in California?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What came after your basic training at Camp Hulen?
Answer: We went to Camp Young in California. That’s the Mohave Desert. We pushed the brush aside, put the tents up and dug our latrines and that was our camp. We made two camps like that, Camp Young and Camp Coxcomb. We were there for 9 months. We arrived in July but it got real cold at night come November. We’d need our stove in our tent for warmth at night. It was 110 degrees during the day but it dropped to 40 degrees at night. Too much of a change in one day but that’s what it was like in the winter in a desert.

Keywords: California; Camp Coxcomb; Camp Hulen; Camp Young; Mohave Desert; Texas; training

Partial Transcript: When did you first hear that you were going to be with the anti-aircraft artillery?

Segment Synopsis: Question: When did you first hear you would be working with anti-aircraft artillery?
Answer: We first went into an Illinois camp and then went onto Texas. We didn’t hear what we would be doing before we got to Camp Hulen in Texas.

Keywords: Camp Hulen; Illinois; anti-aircraft artillery

Partial Transcript: Where you happy with the anti-artillery aircraft or did you want to be any other job in the military?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Were you happy with what you were assigned to do? Had you wanted any other assignment or job in the military?
Answer I told them I worked at the newspaper and would do anything with printing but there wasn’t much to do with that during the war. I just had to stay where they told us, which was to learn how to shoot down the Japanese planes. The biggest thing for us was to identify the planes. We had extensive training to learn about what all the planes looked and sounded like so we didn’t shoot down the wrong planes.

Keywords: anti-aircraft artillery; military; planes

Partial Transcript: So, walk me through an example. How would you know an American plane from a Japanese plane?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Walk me through an example, how would you know an American plane from a Japanese plane?
Answer: The shapes are different and we had to memorize the different kinds using pictures. We could hear them before see them and we’d get a call telling us to get ready for them.

Keywords: American; Japanese; planes

Partial Transcript: When you were in the desert, did you guys practice or how did that work?

Segment Synopsis: Question: How did you practice your shooting those weapons?
Answer: In the desert when we’d practice, the planes would pull a banner behind them and we’d have to try and hit the banner. I was an azimuth tracker, I used a gearbox, that tracked crossways and someone else tracked the elevation and we tracked right on the plane. This was a range finder box. The corporal behind us would have to guess how much ahead of the plane we have to aim to hit it.

Keywords: aim; azimuth; azimuth tracker; elevation; gearbox; range-finder box

Partial Transcript: Was that your general job, was as an azimuth tracker?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Were you an azimuth tracker for the entire time you were in the army?
Answer: Yes I was. It was a fine job and once you learned how to operate it, you had to do it quickly because the planes were coming at you quickly. We were Battery B in the 485th and together we shot down 45 planes in all in the Philippines and Okinawa.

Keywords: 485th; Army; Batter B; Okinawa; Philippines; azimuth tracker

Partial Transcript: So after you went to a couple different camps in California before you boarded the U.S.S Ainsworth, is that correct?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Can you tell me what it was like in the camps (Young and Coxcomb) in the Mohave Desert before you shipped out?
Answer: It was hard to get used to the daily temperature changes. We had water bags for our drinking water that would sweat and it would cool it a little bit. We were in the middle of nowhere, with just a lot of desert brush around. I didn’t see any wildlife while there. However, we slept on the ground in the Philippines for a few weeks before we got our cots. One night I heard something and put on my flashlight. Something had crawled over my shoe and left a phosphorous trail but I never saw what it was. I didn’t get much sleep the rest of that night.

Subjects: Camp Coxcomb; Camp Young; Hawaii; Mohave Desert; Philippines; phosphorous

Partial Transcript: Okay, so you boarded the U.S.S Ainsworth, on February 14th 1944 to head to Hawaii.

Segment Synopsis: Question: You boarded the USS Ainsworth on Feb 15, 1944 to head to Hawaii, can you describe the ship or experience for me?
Answer: It was a big ship that was hauling all of us. We had a tank outfit on that ship too. That was a black outfit but they were real sharp, they were real good. We were still separated in the service at that time. Other than that they were always good friends. We were on the ship for five days. We didn’t see them much once we went into battle but while on the ship we ate dinner together. I remember during one of the meals, the ship had tilted real bad and all our food slipped onto the floor because the Navy forgot to tell us to hang onto our trays!

Keywords: Hawaii; USS Ainsworth; friends

Partial Transcript: Were there any other memories from travelling on the U.S.S. Ainsworth you have?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Were there any other memories from traveling on the USS Ainsworth that you have?
Answer: We had to sleep in cots, five high, and you had to put your feet in first and slide the rest of your body in. Those on top cot had a real hard time getting into bed! It was the first time I was on ship but I never got seasick, some did, but I didn’t.

Keywords: USS Ainsworth; cots; seasickness

Partial Transcript: So you were talking about life on the ship. Where you guys mostly having down time or were you...

Segment Synopsis: Question: While on the Ainsworth, did you have any training or jobs to perform?
Answer: No not on the ship, it just took us to Hawaii. But another time when we arrived at the Hawaiian Islands in 1944, we had to protect the airstrip 24 hours a day because it was during the war. Just one person manned each gun, in two hour shifts, but the rest of us had to be ready at all times in case the Japanese came back, but they never did after Pearl Harbor.

Keywords: Hawaii; Pearl Harbor; airstrip

Partial Transcript: What was Hawaii like once you got there?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was Hawaii like after you got there?
Answer: It was alright. We didn’t have the memorial built yet because it was still wartime then. It was similar weather to the desert, but it was warm almost all the time and didn’t have a big change day to night.

Keywords: Hawaii

Partial Transcript: So you arrived on February 22nd 1944 and you were in Camp...

Segment Synopsis: Question: You arrived in Hawaii February 22, 1944, in Camp Malekole, Oahu island, what did you find there?
Answer: There were a lot of units in Hawaii but we were spread out all over the island for our training, and weren’t all in one place so it didn’t feel crowed.

Keywords: Camp Malekole; Hawaii; Oahu Island

Partial Transcript: And so you had jungle training in March for a week. What was jungle training like?

Segment Synopsis: Question: You had to go through jungle training for a week while in Hawaii in March, can you describe the experience?
Answer: It involved going through heavy tree and vines, crawling under barbed wire with machine guns firing live bullets over our heads. They kept us in pretty good shape. You were always afraid of getting caught on the barbed wire and not be able to get out. This was our training for us to go into the Philippines. The Philippines and Okinawa invasions involved the Infantry going in first and we would go in right after them to set up our guns to shoot at the Japanese planes.

Keywords: Japanese planes; Okinawa invasions; Philippines; barbed wire; infantry; jungle training; machine guns

Partial Transcript: So you guys practiced in early August for the invasion...

Segment Synopsis: Question: You practiced in early August for the invasion and were on LST’s what was that like?
Answer: We just practiced everything that we needed to do for the invasion. The guns were heavy and had to be pulled by a 2 ½ ton truck which the officers had to arrange whenever we had to move.

Keywords: 40 mm guns; LSTs; invasion; practice

Partial Transcript: What was it like interacting with the officers as an enlisted service member?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was it like interacting with the officers as an enlisted service member?
Answer: It was OK. I remember once when we were still in the states in the Mohave Desert and had a fatigue inspection. Normally our fatigues were two pieces but somewhere along the line I had been issued this one-piece coverall fatigue. I had the coveralls on and they had holes in both knees and a hole in the backside as well. The officer asked if these were my only fatigues and I answered YES SIR! He just smiled and moved on. We were issued two pairs of new fatigues once we went over seas. There were also hand-me-down fatigues left by other soldiers after they got their new fatigues, as they were deployed overseas.

Keywords: Mohave Desert; fatigue inspection; fatigues; officers

Partial Transcript: Did your like your time in Hawaii?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did you like your time in Hawaii?
Answer: Yes it was nice but we had to stay on guard duty all the time. We had nice big long buildings with cots for sleeping. The buildings housed 10 soldiers with 5 cots on each side plus areas for a sergeant and corporal to sleep. We also had another little room, a day room to lounge in when not on duty. We would mostly hang out with just the guys from our 15-man gun crew. We were still under 21 years old so we couldn’t go into the bars. We had beer in our camp but that was 3-2 beer and anyone that drank the beer would drop the glass on the floor and we’d be walking on broken glass, it’s a good thing we had good army boots. A 3-2 beer is a low alcohol beer. While we were there we did get a five-day pass and went roller-skating every day and really liked that. I did roller skate before I went into service. Before the war we had gas rationing of 4 gallons a week. I worked at the newspapers and got extra gallons if I delivered newspapers to the paperboys, which got me enough gas to go rollers skating in Sauk city, outside of Madison.

Keywords: 3-2 beer; Hawaii; gas rations; roller skating; time off

Partial Transcript: So after, so you were on Hawaii for several months...

Segment Synopsis: Question: After several months in Hawaii, you left on September 12, 1944 thinking you were heading to participate in the invasion of the Marshall Islands?
Answer: Yes, we arrived in Eniwetok, which is one of the Marshall Islands, anticipating we were going to participate in the invasion. However, we were only in Eniwetok a short time and told we were heading to the Philippines instead. We were surprised but had to go along with their plans.

Keywords: Eniwetok; Marshall Islands; Philippines

Partial Transcript: So then you were headed towards, so you were on Eniwetok but didn't stay there very long...

Segment Synopsis: Question: After leaving Eniwetok, you headed to Manus in the Admiralty Islands by LST, what was that like?
Answer: LSTs are small ships and do a lot of bouncing up and down in the water, but they weren’t too bad. The guns were on different ships because the LSTs were just for people. We arrived Manus on October 5, 1944 and had a briefing on Leyte, our new target.

Keywords: Admiralty Islands; Eniwetok; LSTs; Leyte; Manus; ships

Partial Transcript: And so you, when did, you first heard you were heading to the Philippines in October...

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was covered in the In the October 5, 1944 briefing on Leyte?
Answer: This is where they gave us our goals, explained the territory and challenges because up until now we had been preparing what would face us in the Marshall Islands. We were to enter the Straits of Leyte Gulf on October 19, 1944 and were to hit Leyte on October 20, 1944.

Keywords: Leyte; Marshall Islands; Philippines; Straits of Leyte Gulf

Partial Transcript: So describe what the mood was like; what you guys were feeling before you went to re-invade the Philippines.

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was the mood like as you were about to reinvade the Philippines on the 20th of October, 1944?
Answer: We weren’t in a real bad mood but we were scared and worried about what could go wrong. We just thought that hopefully we’d be alright and we ended up doing pretty good.

Keywords: Philippines; invasion

Partial Transcript: So the first wave landed at 9:58 in the morning?

Segment Synopsis: Question: The first wave landed at 9:58am, and you landed at 2pm (1400 hours). What was that experience like. How did you get from the ship to the beaches?
Answer: We were in a Duck boat with the gun being pulled behind us through the water and the Duck boat just pulled us right onto the land. They put us in a position to set it up.

Keywords: Army; Duck boat; first wave

Partial Transcript: Where you guys seeing, while you were getting off your landing craft were you seeing Japanese planes...

Segment Synopsis: Question: What were you seeing when you were getting off the landing craft?
Answer: We had mostly Japanese planes overhead and they were shooting at anyone and everyone that was trying to land. Later on American planes showed up and helped us shoot at the Japanese planes. This territory had been controlled by the Japanese since 1942 so they had it for a couple of years.

Keywords: American Planes; Japanese planes; landing craft

Partial Transcript: And they were still shooting and they were still in the skies when you landed at 2 o'clock?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Were the Japanese still firing on the troops trying to land at 2pm when it was your companies’ turn to disembark?
Answer: Yes

Keywords: Japanese; disembarking

Partial Transcript: When was about the time that the American aircraft started you seeing more of them in the skies...

Segment Synopsis: Question: When did the American aircraft show up to engage the Japanese?
Answer: The American airplanes came from nearby islands and from aircraft carriers as well. They began to show up about three or four hours after the invasion began.

Keywords: American aircraft; aircraft carriers

Partial Transcript: So you guys must have had a pretty important job...

Segment Synopsis: Question: Would you say that your job was pretty important to set up the guns to help stop the Japanese air attack?
Answer: Yes it was. We needed do it as fast as we could to start to knock those planes out of the air or chase them away.

Keywords: Japanese; air attack; planes

Partial Transcript: Where you seeing when you were landing, Japanese infantry or tanks...

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did you see any Japanese ground troops or tanks?
Answer: No we just saw the airplanes. Our infantry went ahead of us and they helped to clear the way for our landing with our big guns.

Keywords: aircraft; infantry; tanks

Partial Transcript: So Leyte is the main big island? I think Leyte was, yes.

Segment Synopsis: Question: Leyte is the main island and you needed to get to the Dulag Airstrip correct? How long did it take and how did you get there?
Answer: Leyte was the main island and the Japanese had a large contingency there to defend it. A duck boat took us from our ship and pulled our guns to the shore. We stayed in the duck boat even after landing ashore and the boat continued to pull our big guns as it took us right to the airstrip. I think it took about an hour or so to get to the airstrip.

Keywords: Dulag Airstrip; Japanese base; Leyte; Philippines

Partial Transcript: How long did it take to set up the guns?

Segment Synopsis: Question: How long did it take to set up your guns?
Answer: Not too long. It had four arms that came out the side and four places to crank it down and you’d get it off the wheels so it would be stationary. We tried to level it but it didn’t need to be perfectly straight. Then we could start shooting right away. We began shooting as soon as we were set up and continued firing on Japanese airplanes into the evening hours.

Keywords: Japanese airplanes; shooting

Partial Transcript: So you guys were on the Philippines from the day you landed at 2 o'clock...

Segment Synopsis: Question: You were in the Philippines on The day you landed at 2pm and you were in your gun position at the Dulag airstrip until February 15th, how many Japanese planes did you shoot down during that time?
Answer: I don’t know. We had the flag set up there that tracked but that was for all of the batteries. We did have most of the fighting in the Philippines not Okinawa because the Japanese surrendered.

Keywords: Dulag airstrip; Japanese planes; Okinawa; Philippines

Partial Transcript: So this picture you have taken at Okinawa with your board for, the scoreboard...

Segment Synopsis: Question: I have this picture of that was taken in Okinawa of the 485th antiaircraft artillery automatics weapons battalion scoreboard, can you explain what it shows?
Answer: The scoreboard shows the planes shot down for all three batteries using little Japanese flags as markers for each successful kill. This scoreboard shows Leyte with 31 and ½ flags. That’s a lot of planes. We had 8 gun crews for each battery and three batteries so we had 24 gun crews that were shooting at them.

Keywords: 24 gun crews; aircraft; scoreboard

Partial Transcript: So while you guys were set up in your gun crews, was there any talking...

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was it like being in the gun crews in the battery while you were on duty?
Answer: It was mostly silent, we knew what we had to do and we just tried to do it. Getting the guns ready was quite a chore and we did it as fast as we could.

Keywords: gun crew

Partial Transcript: What was your impression of the Philippines?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was your impressions of the Philippines?
Answer: It was just a native island from what we could see. We just had to set up and start chasing the Japanese away from the airstrip. We primarily stayed in and around the Dulag airstrip the whole time. It was remote with nothing around.

Keywords: Dulag airstrip; Philippines

Partial Transcript: What was a day, an average day, like there?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was an average day like there? Was there an average day?
Answer: I think the hardest part for us was the officers trying to feed us regularly, which wasn’t easy. We were just a 15 man crew out alone our own in a basecamp. The terrain was jungle like and desolate. The army strung telephone wires so Headquarters could communicate with us when needed. We did have a 12-man tent and a 6-man tent but we had to sleep on the ground for a few weeks until cots arrived. I tried to make a bed out of bamboo poles and used extra telephone wires lying around to string a bed. Others tried to weave mats out anything they found.

Keywords: headquarters; jungle; terrain

Partial Transcript: Do you think your sergeant and other people who were in charge of you did a good job in getting you guys food...

Segment Synopsis: Question: Do you think your leaders did a good job of supplying you with what you needed?
Answer: Yes they did, they had good training.

Keywords: leaders; supplies; training

Partial Transcript: Did your training and expectations, do you think your training prepared you for your work in the Philippines?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did your training and expectations prepare you for what you faced in the Philippines?
Answer: Yes I think so. We kind of had to get along as best you could for yourself and that is what training did. I didn’t know what to expect. I had never heard of the Philippines before.

Keywords: Philippines; training

Partial Transcript: What was your impression of the Japanese before the war started?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was your impression of the Japanese before the war started?
Answer: I had never thought much about them. They had their country and we had ours and I thought that that’s the way it would always be.

Keywords: Japanese; impressions

Partial Transcript: Where you aware of politics or tensions before the war started?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did your job at the newspaper make you aware of international politics before you were involved in the war?
Answer: Yes, we’d hear more about the European war than the South Pacific war because it started sooner. I did think we would end up getting involved in the war, and we did.

Keywords: European War; South Pacific War; newspaper job; politics

Partial Transcript: So back to the Philippines, can you describe a day for me there?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Can you describe a day for me from the Philippines?
Answer: Just a day trying to eat and stay alive while doing our jobs. We would get sea rations and k rations. K rations came 10 in a box but they’d break up a box, not giving us any extra beyond the number we had. In the Philippines a couple of times they brought us flour and said make your own pancakes. Those pancakes were as flat as can be. The Navy had the practice of throwing its excess or spoiled stuff overboard. One time some baking powder came floating in. Since it hadn’t been opened and was dry inside, I saved it. I was kind of the cook for our group and once I had the baking powder, our pancakes became nice and fluffy. I wasn’t assigned the job but somebody had to do it.

Keywords: Navy; Philippines; daily life; pancakes; rations

Partial Transcript: Was there any down time while you were in the Philippines?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Was there any down time while in the Philippines?
Answer: I got yellow jaundiced while there. My eyeballs turned yellow and I lost my appetite and had no desire to eat. They give you 7up to give you your appetite back. It’s something to make food stay down. Sometimes we’d play cards but no one had any money to bet.

Keywords: cards; down time; yellow jaundice

Partial Transcript: You mentioned in your 2006 interview that you missed three Christmases because you were away at war.

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was Christmas like when you at war?
Answer: We just sat together and talked, it was just like another day, there was no extra time off, as there wasn’t a place for us to go even if we had the time.

Keywords: Christmas; war

Partial Transcript: Who wrote to you during the war?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Who wrote to you during the war?
Answer: We’d get our mail about 2 or 3 months late. Maybe once every few months you might get a handful of letters. My folks and my wife would exchange letters with me.

Keywords: letters; marriage; parents

Partial Transcript: When did you get married?

Segment Synopsis: Question: When did you get married?
Answer: I got married in June of 1944. She came down to Texas to get married before I deployed. When I worked at the newspaper they had a Dutch Maid ice cream place around the corner where they sold malts and shakes and that’s she worked. On Saturday’s when I’d worked a double shift, I’d go over to the Dutch Maid to get something to eat in between shifts and that’s how I met her. But that (marriage) didn’t last. She got $50 a month for half of my pay and I thought she’d be putting half of it away for when I got back home but she spent it all. In 1948 we broke it up. I remarried in 1951 and have been married 65 years.

Keywords: Dutch Maid ice cream; Texas; married; money

Partial Transcript: What would your parents write to you about?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What would your parents write to you about?
Answer: My brothers were in Europe fighting and my parents were of German descent so their letters weren’t too newsy. My parents were uneasy for the whole family.

Keywords: brothers; family; parents

Partial Transcript: Did they receive any backlash for being of German descent...

Segment Synopsis: Question: Did your parents receive any backlash for being of German descent?
Answer: No, no backlash. In fact, I just learned from my niece sometime over last couple of years that my dad was almost drafted into service and would have been 42 years old at the time.

Keywords: German descent; Germany

Partial Transcript: Your parents, did they feel pressure to support their new country or where they worried about family back home in Germany?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Were your parents worried about any family back in Germany? Answer: Yes they were worried about family in Germany. My mother used to write a lot of letters to family over there but of course the mail stopped during the war.

Keywords: Germany; family

Partial Transcript: You mentioned before we started that you went to a reunion in the 90's in Germany...

Segment Synopsis: Question: You mentioned before we started that you went to a reunion in the 1996 to see family. Did you talk about the war?
Answer: Very little. No one wanted to talk about it. The (German) people weren’t bad, it was Hitler and the Nazis that were bad. It was just like in Japan, the Emperor and his people were the bad ones not the common Japanese people.

Keywords: Germany; Hitler; Japanese Emperor; Nazis; common people; family reunion; war

Partial Transcript: What did you think, especially given that you were involved in the newspaper...

Segment Synopsis: Question: What did you think our nation’s leaders during the War?
Answer: Well I think Roosevelt did a great job and Truman did a good job after President Roosevelt passed away. I also think the military leaders did a good job as well.

Keywords: Roosevelt; Truman; military leaders; president

Partial Transcript: What was, first for VE day, what where your thoughts...

Segment Synopsis: Question: What were people’s reactions during VE or VJ day?
Answer: May 8 1945 was VE Day in Europe. My brother was in the army Air force and was coming back to the US and going to Panama Canal to help fight in the Pacific when the message was received that the war was over so they changed routes and happily headed to the US.

Keywords: Air Force; Europe; Pacific; Panama Canal; VE Day; VJ Day

Partial Transcript: What was it like on VJ day?

Segment Synopsis: Question: What was it like on VJ Day?
Answer: We were happy it was over. We did start to shoot our guns in the air but the officers didn’t like that because you’d never know where the shells would land and could have hurt someone else. Of course when a shell hit the ground it would explode.

Keywords: VJ Day

Partial Transcript: You went from maneuvers off Samar Philippine Islands for 10 days...

Segment Synopsis: Question: After you left the Philippines, you went for maneuvers off Samar, Philippine Islands for 10 days?
Answer: Yes, when the 10 days were over we returned to Leyte Gulf. We were told March 26, 1945 that we were going to participate in the invasion of Okinawa. The Captain on the ship said we were going on the invasion on April 1, 1945 but that it wasn’t an April Fools Day joke.

Keywords: April Fools Day; Leyte Gulf; Okinawa invasion; Philippine Islands; Samar

Partial Transcript: You landed on Okinawa on April 1st 1945 and you defended the beachfront...

Segment Synopsis: Question: You landed on Okinawa on April 1, 1945 an you defended the beachfront in three gun positions and you were on Okinawa until VJ day (September 2nd) but you didn’t leave right away. You were there for a couple of months after VJ Day, why?
Answer: We were waiting for a ship to take us back to the United States. This was the only thing that was bad about the officers there, they felt like it was nice duty just sitting around so they said lets wait for another ship to come in. When a third ship came and went, 900 enlisted men went around the officer’s tent and said “we want to go home!” We were on the next ship that came in.

Keywords: Okinawa invasion; VJ Day; beachfront

Partial Transcript: So you went back to California on January 10th 1946...

Segment Synopsis: Question: You returned to California on Jan. 10, 1946. Were you glad to be back in the United States?
Answer: Yes! It looked much nicer to go under the Golden Gate Bridge on our return than on our departure. We waved it goodbye of course, when we went overseas but hello was much sweeter.

Keywords: America; California; Golden Gate Bridge

Partial Transcript: Then you went to Camp McCoy in Wisconsin on January 17th and were discharged from the service.

Segment Synopsis: Question: You next went to Camp McCoy in Wisconsin on January 17, 1946 to be discharged from the service. You were in military service for 3 years and 8 days. Is there any advice you would have given yourself at your entrance to service now that it was over?
Answer: No we just had to learn our jobs and go from there, nothing more else we could do.

Keywords: Camp McCoy; Wisconsin; discharged

Partial Transcript: Are you glad you participated as a soldier in the war?

Segment Synopsis: Question: Are you glad you were in the service and served during the WWII?
Answer: Yes, I’m glad I helped end the war. They dropped the atomic bombs is what helped us from invading Japan. They would have slaughtered a lot of us if we had to invade. The bomb saved us. I’m glad the Japanese surrendered after the second bomb because we didn’t have any more bombs. They dropped the second bomb on a second city because the fist city was clouded over.

Keywords: atomic bombs

Partial Transcript: How did you hear about the bombs, the atomic bombs being dropped?

Segment Synopsis: Question: How did you hear about the atomic bombs being dropped? How did it make you feel?
Answer: It was comforting because they had everything zeroed in on us and how far out we were, so a Japanese invasion would have been very destructive.

Keywords: atomic bombs

Partial Transcript: Thank you very much for your time and for your service and speaking with me now...

Segment Synopsis: End of Interview Session