Interview with Cynthia Bailey

LEH: All right. This is Lena Evers-Hillstrom and I'm here with Cindy Bailey for the UW System restructuring project. Today is April 22, 2020. Cindy, could you say your name and then spell out your last name?

CB: So it's actually Cynthia Bailey, but I go by Cindy. And the last name is B-a-i-l-e-y.

LEH: All right. Looks like the mic is good. All right. So I usually kind of start with background information. So what brought you to the former UW Colleges, yeah.

CB: Okay. So I was, I actually was employed with the UW Colleges starting in 1997. So I had been there for quite some time before the restructuring happened. And prior to that, I was just familiar with the campus because I actually started at the UW-Green Bay, Marinette campus. So I'm originally from Marinette, Wisconsin. And graduated high school and did my first two years at the UW-Green Bay, Marinette campus, and then transferred to Stevens Point. And then was in the world of work for a couple of years and had the opportunity to apply and come back for a position in student services at the Marinette campus. So I started that in July of 1997 and have been on the Marinette campus since that time.

So my primary background, though, is all in student affairs. So everything from recruitment and admissions, financial aid, student activities and academic advising. Transfer information, veterans' services. Did a little CE for a while, and then our business services as well when we had vacancies in positions.

And then with restructuring, applied for and then was given the position of the campus administrator and the regional associate dean for student affairs and enrollment management. And at that point, I oversaw the student affairs division at the Marinette and the UW Marathon County campus in Wausau. And then in was the campus administrator for the Marinette campus.

LEH: All right. So I guess that that kind of goes with the question of how your positions have evolved prior to restructuring and how your work has changed post-restructuring.

CB: Yeah. So when I was hired in '97, I was hired as the associate student services coordinator. And then moved to student services coordinator and then was the director of student services for the office, and then the assistant dean for student services. So a lot of positions just were at the same institution and same location.

And then when we went to restructuring and reorganization and regionalization, the position basically took what I was doing in student affairs at the Marinette campus and had me in charge of student affairs at the two different locations. And between Marinette and Marathon counties is about a two hour and fifteen-minute drive. So that was something where I was going to Wausau every single week to make sure I was meeting with my team there and working with them. We got really good at what everybody's doing now. We got really good at Skype meetings and virtual meetings and stuff. So we were very aggressive in using a lot of technology when it came to making sure that you were supervising and working with staff at two different locations. So that was something, I think, that those of us who worked for the Colleges and who are now with a receiving, or four-year institution, I think that's something that we really brought to the table was the ability to work with and use technology when working with people at various locations. You know, something that we were very good at, those of us who worked in the Colleges, is that we were used to having a central office and then working with multiple sites. So we had campuses across the state. And so we knew that there might not be someone down the hall who had my exact goal. But I could call someone at another campus and they were doing pretty much the exact same thing as I was, just in a different city and for a different community. But you could relate to them that way. So we were used to working with multiple locations with our one institution, so I think that's something right now that we're also bringing to the table working with the four-year campuses that we do now.

LEH: So sort of after regionalization, I was wondering, I guess, if you could go more into detail about the process of working with multiple sites, what that's sort of like from a student affairs perspective. Yeah.

CB: Well I think the biggest thing is when we were hired for our role, we had the opportunity to interview individual to then serve as our advisors, as our information specialists, our events coordinators at all of our, at 00:06:00our locations. So when I say "our," I'm talking about, there were five of me across the state. So there were five individuals who held the position that I did across the state for our thirteen campuses. And so we had the opportunity to go and interview individuals to serve on our campuses.

And some of the traits that we were really looking for when hiring individuals were individuals who could really harness and take on that leadership role, knowing that they're not, their supervisor isn't going to be in the office with them every single day. So knowing that I can't be split between Marinette and Marathon County, it was making sure that I had a very strong team in Marinette, and I had a very strong team in Marathon County who would be able to run that office even though I wasn't there face to face. They would have to make some decisions on their own, but of course could always reach out to me. But knowing that I wanted them to really feel ownership in that office, and ownership in their role. So whether it was in academic advising or doing student events or working with people at the front desk with financial aid, I wanted them to feel knowledgeable of the information that they had to provide, or at least know where to go for that information.

And I think, that's what I found out first that was very, very important, is to make sure that the staff, the boots on the ground who are there every single day, knowing that I wasn't going to be, was equipped with all the material and information that they needed to answer questions. Whether it was from phone calls coming in or foot traffic or face to face advising with the students to make sure they had that information. And I don't know if that was always given to them. And I think that that was something that I felt was very important. And I know that the staff did as well. I think they felt very trusted. And a sense of pride in their campus, and pride over that office, because they knew that they were responsible to keep things running, even though I might not have been there at that time.

And it was a hard position in the sense that not only was I responsible for overseeing the student affairs office at both campuses, but then also the day to day campus administrator operations for that Marinette campus. So even on the days that I wasn't in Marinette, you know, I was in Wausau working, I still had to make sure those day to day operations and items that people needed to get to me, people in Marinette knew who to reach out to or knew who to call or knew how to get in touch with me on those day to day kind of things. So I think that was the hard part is it was, you know, those day to day operations for the administrator role, but then the overarching student affairs at both locations as well.

But we had a very, very strong team. Regional associate deans for student affairs and enrollment management. Five of us were in those roles. And we had a very strong team and we really, we worked amazingly well together. So 00:09:00that was a great value that we had. There was like there wasn't someone down the hall that was doing my role, but there was someone across the state who. I could always call upon to ask questions or to bounce ideas off of. And we shared a lot of information that way.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that kind of goes--sorry?

CB: Oh, I'm here.

LEH: Oh, sorry. Something snagged with my phone for a second there. I guess, oh, what was I saying? That kind of goes into the question, too, of you mentioned people's pride in their campuses. And I was wondering if you could expand on that.

CB: Yeah. I mean, I think the whole regionalization process was, it didn't really come as a surprise, because we knew budget cuts were coming and we knew the route that the institution was planning to go. So I think, you know, you had thirteen different locations, and thirteen communities that were very different, right? Each campus had their culture. Each campus had different relations within their community. Each campus had a different faculty/staff dynamic. So it was interesting when we were given our roles to oversee two different campuses that sometimes had very different cultures and very different ways of doing things. And it was very important for me in my role to find out how that campus, how they ticked, right? How they worked. And I think that was something, to find out what made the faculty, staff, students, proud of their campus. What were the traits that they liked? How was the support from the community, and that kind of thing? And I think that was something that we really made a point of, because you don't want to lose that. I'm on the Marinette campus still, and that is something that I'm extremely proud of is the pride that our faculty and staff have in producing success for our students and helping students succeed and do great work.

And I think that is something that the Colleges always had. It was very evident. Being sort of an outsider when I started at Marinette County in Wausau. It was great to go in. I met with a lot of faculty members and staff there to talk about what they really liked about the campus and what they were proud of the campus, and how the community would lean on them and all of that. So that was something that I think really continued through regionalization as well. I mean, I think we had, being in the north region that I was with my 00:12:00campuses, I think we had a very strong regional executive officer in Keith Montgomery who really got that pride for our campuses in the north region. And I think that that was something that we really continued to work on and continued to make sure we never lost that within our communities.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. So then, I guess, going into regionalization and student affairs, what was the impact of restructuring on sort of like student access? Like what were some sort of either challenges or positive things that were presented to students or staff that the other side might not see?

CB: Well, you know, I think positions were eliminated. There were some positions that were let go at the institutions because maybe it was more to be right-sized in operating in regards to if there was a loss in head count at locations, and maybe they were operating with too many individuals still on the campus. Really what happened was there was sort of a right-sizing done across the state, looking at the size of each campus and sort of how many advisors should be at that campus. The thing that I really liked is we really sort of like not reformed, I don't know what the best word is for it. But just sort of reorganized the office to have the same positions at each location. In the past, there were a lot of piecemeal positions together. Like they did 25% of this, and 25% of this, and 25% of this, and one more 25%, they made you a fulltime position. But now it was really structured more to be, okay, you are 100% position doing this. So it was much easier to say okay, across the state, here's who we have doing these certain roles. And it was a lot easier for cross-training, and it was a lot easier, as far as to manage, I think, too. Especially when we had individuals such as me moving between two different locations. It was nice to have consistency in regards to what the staff were doing in each role at each campus.

I do think that was hard. Maybe not so much at Marinette, because we are pretty right-sized to begin with. But I think in Wausau, they lost a couple of positions where there was an individual who was specifically there just doing financial aid and just doing veterans' benefits. Where those positions now were going to be part of what happened with academic advising. And it was 00:15:00also going to be part of what was shifting down to the central office in Madison. So they may have lost a head count of a person, an FTE of a person being on that campus. But the tasks were going to be done elsewhere. So it was a lot more cross-training.

And it was a lot more creating sort of a one-stop shop where people come in and you have prospective students coming in and they want to get information. And boom, they could go to one location where they were going to get information on how to apply, how does admissions work, which was all going centrally. And how do I apply for financial aid, where you could have your academic advisors now answer some of those questions in regard to financial aid instead of sending it off specifically to one person who does financial aid. Now everyone knows a little bit of surface information about anything. And I think that's something that's really important. I think now that we continue to do in our role at Marinette is we have individuals who can help with a lot of information on camps. But if it gets deep down into detailed questions, you're going to of course hand those off to the person who does it fulltime for their position. But they're able to really sort of front-end answer a lot of the questions before you know, and able to satisfy, really, customer-service-wise to students coming in. And I think that was one of the real benefits.

More and more campuses are going to one-stop shops where you come in and all of your questions are answered, and you can get generally started on anything. And I think that's what we were really designing at each of our locations was that. And our central office at Madison served as a hub for application processing. It served as the hub for financial aid processing. Veterans' benefits were all done that way, student accessibility services. But you had individuals at each of the campus locations who could answer those general questions.

So I think that was a change for people. And maybe at first because, what, changes causes sort of anxiety and angst in everyone, I think, at first. But I think then as you started to see and as we started to work in these new roles, we saw that it was working. And it was actually a really efficient way of running our locations.

LEH: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that makes sense that prospective students would kind of want something like that. Did you see things with admissions changing at all prior to restructuring at either of the campuses that you worked on? Either in the way that people are going about applying or the number of 00:18:00applications, things like that?

CB: I guess I have a question. (laughs) Could you ask that again, because I guess I don't know if I'm really getting what you--

LEH: Sorry. I was just wondering if you've seen any sort of like trends in admissions, either before restructuring or after? Yeah. Sorry. Does that make sense?

CB: On how we processed applications? Or students applying? Do you mean how we work through those things?

LEH: I was sort of thinking how students are applying. And I know you mentioned that that central office, having that was, I guess this is, well, this is a tangential question. But you mentioned the central office and the usefulness of that. I'm just wondering after restructuring, sort of the structure changing to branch campuses, how, if at all, that sort of change in structure impacted admissions. From your end.

CB: Okay. I still don't know if I'm getting it. So I mean, going back years before regionalization, we had to do application processing at each of our locations. And you had individuals interpret application processing somewhat differently at each of those locations. So I think one of the best things we did with regionalization was move all application processing to our central office. Because then that is done by individuals who that's all they do every day is do application processing. When you had them in each of our locations, they were doing that amongst keeping up with foot traffic in the office and that kind of thing. So I think it was a much more efficient way that we did it when we went to regionalization. So having the central office or central office folks who may have been located at other branch campuses or other locations do the application processing alone, I think that really helped and made things much more streamlined, once we got a process in place. So once it was figured out that this is how you do it, this is where you need to send information to, it was a really efficient process. In fact, that's how we do it now being part of UW Green Bay. All the applications are processed at the main campus in 00:21:00Green Bay. And then they just choose which location they're going to go to, if it's Marinette, Manitowoc or Sheboygan or main campus, and it goes from there.

So right now I'm in a very similar situation to what we did when we went to regionalization. So, I think I'm saying what you're asking? (laughs) I don't know.

LEH: Yeah, definitely that was, yeah, that was my question. (laughs) Yeah. So then I guess, going into sort of recruitment, could you sort of discuss that as it applies to regionalization? I'm sorry, restructuring, I'm sorry. Yeah. If recruitment changed, how did it change and why?

CB: So, we're talking about when we went into regionalization, right? That's what we're looking at, right?

LEH: If you want to go through--

CB: Or when we restructured to be with a receiving institution? Which one are we doing? (laughs)

LEH: Sorry, I realize I've gotten that one a little bungled up. Why don't we go through regionalization first, and then--

CB: Okay. Because I'm like those are two totally separate topics. And I thought we were just talking about regionalization. (laughs)

LEH: So why don't we, I'll just ask sort of questions that have to do with regionalization. And then we can sort of concretely move to restructuring. Yeah.

CB: Okay. Okay. Because that's what I thought we were looking at. Okay. So, regionalization, we obviously what we lost with that was a recruiter at each location. But not every campus always had a recruiter. So the way regionalization worked is we had recruiters who served regions of the state. And something that was quite amazing is that the UW Colleges were serving every, all areas of the state, which was incredible. When we looked at recruitment and prospective student efforts, you know, ACT lists were bought for the entire state. So students were really getting served by the system. I mean, that's what I thought was really awesome is that we have this great UW System that had thirteen two-year campuses and thirteen four-year campuses. And so we were really able to make sure that our students in our state were serviced by this system. And so when we were located in all these different regions throughout the state, we were really able to reach students who maybe had never been visited by a higher education institution in their high schools. And it was a really great sort of forward-thinking model that put us in the high 00:24:00schools more often. There was a lot of coaching and a lot of really working students through the application process to get them started and get them finding out what is going to be the best higher education path for them. And I think it was a great model that I don't know was given enough time to get legs and get off the ground when we went to regionalization. Because it was really only a couple of years that we were in regionalization, and then we were restructured again. But I do think it was a model that was a great design. But I think needed more time to get off the ground.

LEH: Yeah. I guess that sort of goes into a question of sort of how do you market or kind of sell the associate's degree of arts and science to students as a better option opposed to maybe other alternatives. Like one of the four-years, or one of the technical schools.

CB: Well, the associate of arts and science degree is one that fills your first sixty credits of no matter what major you're really looking at. So your first two years are taken care of, your general education requires, the guaranteed transfer. I mean, that was something that was very appealing. We had a large percentage of our students who started at the Marinette campus, that's what they earned. It was a sense of degree completion and instead of you start at a four-year institution, and we know many of the students don't persist to that sophomore year. You know, they struggle or they end up transferring anyway. So why not start at an institution that is designed for transfer? The UW Colleges were designed for transfer. We were designed to get students started. And many, many students who started with us were undecided. A technical route, you need to be decided on what you want to do. You need to decide what path you want to go, because theirs is very prescriptive. While the UW Colleges associate of arts and science degree gave students an idea of all the different facets that were out there and all the different disciplines. So they took a variety of classes, and hopefully found that ah-ha class that gave them an idea of what they wanted to do.

Many of the system institutions were designed to take in that UW Colleges associate degree very well to fulfill their gen ed requirements. The students then were able to hop right into their major program. Many of the four-year campuses, as budgets got tight and as they were not getting as much money from the state, the four-year campuses were changing a lot of their programs to require students to now transfer their sophomore year. And making more requirements like oh, you have to have this course, instead of just taking 00:27:00a general course that would fit under the associate's degree, you had to have degree-specific coursework. So it caused students to have to transfer, where initially it was yes, do your first two years at the location, or at the UW Colleges campuses, and then transfer in. So that was something that I think hurt our ability. I think many of the four-year campuses had closer relationships with the technical colleges than they did with the UW Colleges. Which was a shame. Because the UW Colleges was part of the UW System that the four-year campuses were part of. But yet there were better relationships with the technical colleges.

So that was an interesting dynamic, too, that I think hurt the enrollment at the two-year campuses of the UW Colleges. But I think our product was a very, very good one. it was a great one for students who were first generation who were trying to figure out what they wanted to go to college for, but knew then after two years they'd have that sixty-credit associate of arts and science degree that they could take and go anywhere. Whether they were going in the world of work, or they were going to go on for a baccalaureate program. That would transfer over and work well for them.

LEH: Yeah. So why do you think the four-years had a closer relationship with the technical colleges?

CB: Because there were a lot of students at the technical colleges. And that's a lot of money and that's a lot of transfers. So I mean, that's really what it is, right? When you are short on money and you need enrollment, you look to where those students are coming from. And the technical college students, many of them with the associate degrees that they were getting, there were reverse baccalaureate programs that were put together with the four-year campuses. And I work for an institution now that has a very, very close relationship with a technical college. And it actually works very well. And we've got a great program in place and lots of opportunities, I think, in the future working together. But I think rewind time when the UW Colleges was there and the techs and the four-years, the dynamic was interesting that there wasn't maybe more guidance from above on how to operate as a system. I don't know. That's way beyond my pay scale. I have no idea. (laughter)

LEH: All right. I guess before we move on into my questions around restructuring, do you have anything that you want to add about regionalization?

CB: You know, I think it was cut short. I think had regionalization been in place for a couple more years, we would have seen a turnaround. The 00:30:00way that we were recruiting for students and stuff and the way that we restructured for students. Because the Colleges was something special. It really, really was. And I think we offered, and our faculty had the ability to work with students who were coming in, you know, a lot of first generation students. A lot of students who were coming in where maybe college wasn't even on their radar. Until maybe at their junior year of high school and they thought well, maybe I can go do that college thing.

And so our faculty were really poised and ready to work with those students who were coming in where maybe it was going to be a struggle. But then they also on the other hand were able to work with those students who were coming in as valedictorian of their class, but who were footing the whole bill for their college education and couldn't afford a Madison right away. And couldn't afford to go to a larger institution. Or had to stay home and help with the family and stuff.

So our faculty could teach on that wide spectrum of, you know. Whereas Madison, everyone comes in and they're all doing well. They all did well on the ACT. They were all good students in high school. And they teach to that upper level. But the faculty at our institutions and our locations were amazing at teaching that wide variety of students. And I think that was something that was incredible. To watch the students walk across our stage at graduation who were the first person in their family, and they have thirty-two people coming to watch them at graduation because they're so excited, because that family is backing them because they're so proud of the fact that they're the first one to get that college degree.

And that's what the Colleges did is we serviced those students. And we serviced our communities. That's where we're really key, too, is that we are in locations across the state that need us. We are in locations where our communities and our counties support us and they want us there. And it's just remarkable. I think the sense of pride at our campuses. And that continues, because all of us are still here, it continues here because it's something that is critical and very important for our state to have.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. I think that piece about the counties especially. I don't know. I grew up in a different state, so I've never seen counties financially involved in a state system the way it is in Wisconsin. It's really interesting. Yeah.

CB: Mm hmm. Yeah. It is. And we, I have a very close working relationship with the Marinette County board. And they are proud of having--you 00:33:00know, there are other cities across the state of Wisconsin, and Michigan, because we're very close to Michigan, where I'm located, that are of our size that don't have a higher education institution located in them. And there's something missing there. I mean, I think we're very lucky to have a higher education institution in our community. But our community knows that and they appreciate that. And our county knows that and appreciates that, too. So I think that that's something that's really tried and true when you look at our community, they value what having a UW System institution in their community means, what that means to this community. So I think that's something that's very, very important.

You know, I think when regionalization happened, I think that's when we saw a dip down a bit in our numbers. But we started to see that coming back up again. And then we went to restructure, and we see our numbers dip down again. So it's been a hard five years. It has been a very hard thing, but I think something that continues to be here is that pride of having the institution here, the dedication of the faculty and staff who work here, the utter joy from the students who start on our campus, who say, "I'm so glad that this is here. I wouldn't have gone on to college if I had to go someplace else. I wouldn't have been able to do that." So the fact that we're here, and the students we serve, it's very purposeful.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. So, pivoting into restructuring now, when did you find out about the plans to restructure? And how was this information told to you? Do you remember--and I mean, I understand if you don't, it's been a while--but do you remember at all what you were feeling initially about the restructuring?

CB: I actually found out on October tenth. I was flying back from Boston. I had presented at a conference with the individuals who I mentioned did my job across the state. So there were five of us. And we presented at a conference about how to reorganize your system, and how to reorganize a student affairs office.

LEH: Oh my God. (laughs)

CB: And we talked about everything that we went through, and we talked about how exciting it was. And people from across the nation told us that we should become consultants because we were really good at what we did. And it was pretty cool. And we flew back to Milwaukee. And I got off the plane. And I had, 00:36:00you know how you switch on your phone to airplane mode and stuff. I switched it off of airplane mode and a whole bunch of emails and meeting requests and text messages came through. And it was a message from my regional dean saying oh my gosh, we have a meeting tomorrow morning at eight AM, and this is what's happening. I mean, we literally had just presented at this conference about what the success was for the state of Wisconsin in doing this. And then this happened. So I totally remember where I was when I was given that information.

And my initial shock was, oh my gosh, you've got to be kidding. Oh my gosh. You know? And my pride for the UW Colleges--anyone who knows me knows that I live and breathe UW-Green Bay, Marinette Campus. I am 100%. Anyone in the community knows me, graduates and stuff. I love my campus. And I love what we do. I'm so proud of who we have working there and the students we've had come through our doors.

So when this came, I--and I'm a very optimistic person. I lean that way, always. I always look for silver linings. I look for okay, well, what opportunity does this bring? But I think it was a bit of a blow, because we had just gone through all this regionalization stuff. And then it was like oh my goodness, we're doing this again. Because most people working in higher ed, don't ever really even go through a regionalization reorganization process. Let alone, now we're going to go through it again. So I think that was just a huge like gut punch for me was we had just gone through all this regionalization. We had just restructured our entire offices and our system as the Colleges. And then that was going to be stripped away. And now we were going to be with a four-year campus. But there was no plan in place. And I think that was sort of a weird way to roll it out was that, okay, this is going to happen, but there's no cookie cutter approach to it. You all can figure it out and do it how you want to. I think that was bizarre to me. Now I'm really happy that it went that way, because I'm very happy working with Green Bay and how they decided to do things. But I know that every receiving institution took on their locations differently.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's sort of, that uncertainty of not really knowing or, I mean, do you have people initially, you talked about sort of like the pride that people at the Marinette County board had about being 00:39:00involved with UW-Green Bay, Marinette Campus. What were your conversations with people like following this announcement?

CB: So, that, you know, that I don't remember. Isn't that bad? I should probably remember that. I'm trying to think. Because I think people thought like oh, you must have known kind of thing. Because the role that I had, I was the administrator for my campus. And oh, you must have known. But no one knew! Like I mean, this was an out of the blue kind of thing. And I think it was, I think it was perceived like maybe administration knew more. But no one really, no one, at least, no one I knew knew anything about it. So I think it was a shock. It was a lot of what does this mean? Now that we're with, we're going to be with Green Bay, what does this mean? And I think the answer was always we don't know, we don't know, we don't know what it's going to turn out to be. So I think there was a lot of maybe mistrust from System. Mistrust of System, I should say. Not by, I don't know, I don't think it was really by faculty and staff on campus. But I think there were individuals in our community who were very frustrated, who saw you know, first that you went through regionalization, now you're going through this. I think that they saw it as a real trying time for the smaller campuses to have to deal with so much change and the unknown.

Yeah, I don't really remember doing a lot of, I think our foundation board was very unsure of how System, and why System made that decision. And how no one was consulted on it and stuff. There was frustration there. But I felt very included from the beginning, though, once we knew that we were teamed up with Green Bay. I mean, Green Bay was very good about making sure that individuals from Marinette, from Manitowoc and from Sheboygan were included in conversations, that expertise was brought from the Colleges campuses forward. Especially because we really knew our campuses and we really knew our community. So we were looked to for a lot of that information. Yeah.

Does that give, because I don't really remember some specific conversations, other than I think there were people who were frustrated. I think there were people who were nervous and scared that big Green Bay was going to 00:42:00come in and want to change the culture and want to change the way that we do everything at the Marinette campus. But Green Bay was very understanding and saying no, we know that the Marinette campus is here for a reason, and we know there's success in this campus for a reason. It's because you service your community and what your community needs and wants are. So that really had stayed and maintained, but actually really grown to be much more active in our community now that we're affiliated with Green Bay. It's been very good.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. So was it kind of clear that, with communication channels from people working at UW-Green Bay, Marinette that things were sort of going up to Green Bay and then sort of to the conversations that Green Bay was having with the larger sort of like steering committee structure?

CB: Yeah. I mean, I think there was a representative from the Green Bay campus who was sort of a chair of this whole thing, and it was called Project Coastal. So there was a chair of Project Coastal, which was really in charge of how are we going to make sure that we, as UW Green Bay, become one institution with four locations? Because that's the model that we have. So a student applies to the Marinette campus or the Sheboygan campus or the main campus or the Green Bay campus and we're all UW Green Bay students. So, no matter where you're located. And students can take classes amongst all four locations. And it's very, we're very much one institution now. We just have four locations among a sixteen-county footprint. And Green Bay did a very good job of that. I think communication is really the key. There were times when we were really good at it and there was times that we faltered in that. But I think that is again a part of something those of us who worked for the two-year campuses, we knew that you had to really overly communicate everything, because not everybody was in the same city, right? Not everyone was right down the hall. People were scattered everywhere. So we were always used to doing a lot of email communication or video announcements or anything like that. And I think Green Bay, that took a little bit of getting used to, because they were just always just Green Bay. And now they've got to worry about three other locations. They were the smallest campus as a receiving institution. And then they got three different 00:45:00locations. It was a big adjustment. It wasn't like Eau Claire and Barron County where it's one to one. It was one receiving institution with three locations. And there's a smallest campus that got all three of us.

So I think it was a lot of reorganization on their part, too. And they have just done, I am so proud to be affiliated with Green Bay. They have done an outstanding job of making sure our faculty know that they are UW Green Bay faculty and they are part of that department at that campus. And our, you know, enrollment services team that consists of admissions and advising and veterans and financial aid, I mean, it is, we are all one. And we really work together. And they've got some excellent, excellent leadership in administration who is making sure of that. We have a new provost who is now going to be our new chancellor who has a great vision of opportunities now that can't happen within Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Marinette. So really looking as a whole how we are doing that as UW Green Bay.

LEH: Yeah. And I guess speaking of enrollment, what was the impact, if at all, that restructuring had on enrollment at Marinette?

CB: So it did go, well, no, actually we might have been pretty even. I don't know off the top of my head because that's not under me anymore. So, yeah, you'd have to get those numbers from System because I don't even know if I know. But I want to say, I mean, if anything now, we're starting to see us go up. Because we have a dedicated recruiter, admissions advisor is what we call them in our region, who services the Marinette campus. And then we have one that services the Manitowoc and the Sheboygan campus. So they are dedicated to be embedded in our community and working with our prospective students. And that has really, really helped us to really formulate who we are in getting our name out there in the community and stuff, doing a lot of events for current students and for prospective students. So that has been really, really good. So I'll be interested to see. Because we're really, we're still working through all of this. And especially with System the way it was--I'm trying to think. Okay, so that was what, fall? What was it, October of '17? No, '18? When we heard that, right? So it hasn't even been really two full years that we've been through all of this. So I think we're now just trying to figure out who we are. 00:48:00And we've got marketing plans that are going out, and baccalaureate programs that are now in our region. And that is something that has been just tremendous. Because of course, as the Colleges, we could never offer bachelor's degree programs in the Marinette area in Sheboygan. And Manitowoc couldn't, either. And now we are able to offer bachelor's degree programs and students in our communities can now earn their four-year degree without leaving at all. And that's pretty great. That's what we're really proud of, too, in the changes.

LEH: Yeah, yeah. I can see where that would be definitely a benefit. So, were there any, so from your perspective as the executive officer at Marinette, were there any things that were sort of like this is like a clear challenge in restructuring that needs to be solved? Does anything sort of stand out to you as like this is a big thing that I remember from this process?

CB: I mean, I think a lot of, I'm just going to speak from like the perspective of the general community member, or general state individual, resident, would think like oh, you guys were all UW System. This should be pretty easy to do, to merge all of this together. Like the general assumption was oh, you're a system, this should be easy. No. All of our courses are numbered differently at every single institution. Our academic calendars were different. The way we do, I mean, the way we do probation and suspension and academic standing stuff was different. I mean, it was alarming to me, or it is alarming to me, how different each institution is, even though we are one system. So I think that the merger right there of all of those things on the academic end of it, I don't think anybody, I don't know, did they think through that? I have no idea. But that was a big challenge, you know? I mean, it was really looking at, okay, so we've got this whole set of classes that we offered as the Colleges. Are we going to merge some of these into Green Bay? Or are we just going with Green Bay classes now? And how does that work? And how do the transcripts look? Because you have to look at how those classes are now being loaded into Green Bay system. So there was a lot, a lot on that end of things. And I think a lot of people just assumed it would be really quick and easy because it was all the same system. 00:51:00But it's not.

I mean, I think there are times when we do not operate as a system, as the UW System. And I'm very comfortable saying that because I think I've worked for it long enough that I think there's a lot that we do very, very, very well. But I think sometimes we don't operate as a system should.

So I think that end of things was something that was very concerning at first, but it worked out. The first year, we continued to run our courses as UW Colleges numbering, you know, UW Colleges courses. But this past fall, fall of '19, we were all fully in the SIS system that is used by Green Bay. We used all Green Bay's numbers. We added some new courses that came over from our campus into their system. So it worked. It just took a bit.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. I guess were there any sort of, you sort of talked about the positives of this. But were there any other either positives or negatives of, I guess, how do I phrase this? I'm wondering if you could elaborate on sort of what you're talking about with standardization and sort of making sure that things work across different institutions while also sort of keeping that mission of UW-Green Bay, Marinette and the former colleges? Yeah. I don't know, does that, is that kind of clear as a question?

CB: Yeah. I mean, what we have done is if a student is admitted to the branch locations, because we were open access institutions, we are still open access for the Sheboygan and the Manitowoc and the Marinette locations. There's a different set of admission standards to be admitted to the main campus of Green Bay. So we still have that sort of tiered system when it comes to admissions. Is that what you're looking at, maybe?

LEH: Oh, yeah, yeah. Kind of. I was just thinking, not just in terms of admissions, but in terms of sort of like keeping the individual identity while also being part of the whole of Green Bay. Of like the Green Bay group of schools.

CB: Yeah. And so I mean, I think the administration at Green Bay has been very understanding of the importance of keeping UW, or keeping the Sheboygan campus linked and part of that Sheboygan community. I think we've done that in Marinette. Because I think that they have heard that loud and clear 00:54:00from our community members that that is something that is very important to us. It's awesome to be linked with a four-year campus and now able to have four-year degrees in our community. So that is a huge benefit of it. But I think we don't want to lose the one-on-one attention and the ability to really service students that we can at our smaller location. You know, our faculty-to-student ratio is much smaller. Students have smaller class sizes. They're going to know their faculty members. They don't have TAs at our locations. And that's something that we're going to continue to keep. You know, something that we do hope to gain, though, is to offer more evening courses. Offer more courses in a variety of modalities and share amongst the other locations of UW Green Bay.

You know, we've got an interesting opportunity here in Marinette. We've got NWTC, the technical college just down the road. So we have an opportunity to really offer a lot of programs where students are graduating from the technical college. Can they go right into the baccalaureate programs right down the road then at our institution? So how do we team up and make that happen for the citizens of Marinette?

So I think the opportunity is there for it. I think the campus culture is still maintaining. But it still is a good balance, I guess? Maybe that's what I'm trying to find. There's a good balance between what is Green Bay and what it means to be that larger four-year institution. And then keeping who we were as the Colleges. Those central important things. I think we have enough faculty and staff on board who remember that time. I mean, we're not hanging onto it and we're not always saying, "Well, this is not how it's done." But we are very appreciative of how we can service and work in the community.

LEH: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I think it's interesting, too, because in Green Bay's case, you guys are kind of one of the, I believe one of the larger groupings of branch campuses.

CB: Yeah. We're the only one that got three. Everybody else, the max was only two. But again, Green Bay was the smallest campus to get any additional campuses, and then they got three of them.

LEH: Oh. Yeah. That's--

CB: Yeah. Because like Oshkosh got two, Whitewater only got one. You know. Platteville got two. Eau Claire got one. Milwaukee got two. Stevens Point got two. But yeah, Green Bay got three.

LEH: Yeah. Do you think the decision to group Marinette, Sheboygan 00:57:00and Manitowoc, or I guess from the perspective of someone in the Marinette community, was that kind of an easy decision? Or--

CB: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really, Green Bay was always our number one transfer institution for students anyway. I mean, students would start with us. They would earn their associate of arts and science degree. Green Bay would take it in. It would wipe out all their gen ed requirements. And they'd go right into their program. I mean that, for years. I had worked in advising for like nineteen years. (laughs) So that was like our number one feed was to Green Bay. We did have a good number of students, just because we're right on the border of Michigan, who would go up to Northern Michigan University. But as far as Wisconsin schools, Green Bay was always the number one. It's a logical fit. It's only forty-five minutes to an hour down the road. And a lot of the programs that our students desired, they were there. So the fact that we're now Green Bay, it's a natural fit that way, yeah. If we had been paired with anybody else, that would have been mind-blowing to me.

LEH: (laughter) Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hmm, let's see. I think we've talked about most of these. We have talked about the technical colleges. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to add or--

CB: Yeah. When you talk about the technical colleges, something that we have, we have a coalition that is now put together in the Marinette area. It's called the Marinette Area Higher Education Coalition. And it is the UW Green Bay Marinette campus and NWTC Marinette that we joined together. So I work with the dean over at that campus. We probably meet twice a week and discuss opportunities and programs. We visit business and industry together now. We do a lot together. Which I think is great. Because what that really displays to our community is that we're not rivals, we're not competitors. We are collaborators. And we're really working together to make sure that we're servicing the students. Whether they're traditional aged, you know, high school students who end up coming to us or if they're individuals who are in the workforce and coming back to school. We're servicing everyone with what is going to be the best path forward for them. And I think what it really does is it complements and really showcases the Marinette area. I mean, we're pretty darn lucky to have the kind of higher ed opportunities that we do have in our region. And I think that just really enhances that for everyone.

It's been very, very well received by members of our community. Business leaders 01:00:00in our community and such, they are really happy with that. So I think that collaborative effort moving forward is really just going to propel us forward. And like I said, I mean, I think that was really set precedence because the main campus in Green Bay has had such a close relationship with the technical college there that I think it was logical once Marinette became part of Green Bay to have that kind of same relationship with the technical college here in town. So I think that really has established from the president and chancellor leadership. They really set the tone for that. And so we grabbed onto it, and it really is working well. And I think it's going to be something to really watch within the next five years how that really transforms our region and our campuses. So, exciting.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. All right. Before I let you go, do you have anything else you'd like to add?

CB: My closing thoughts. Let me tell you. (laughs) I'm a very proud worker of, an employee of the UW System. And it has been a system that helped me get my start. I was a first-generation college student and couldn't have afforded to go away to a campus. So having Marinette in my backyard was phenomenal. I could have gone anywhere academically, but financially, it just wasn't there. So to stay local was wonderful for me to get my start here. And I think that's why I had such a passion for it for years coming back. Because I knew the kind of students we served, and knew the importance of being here in our community and what we do. We have morphed and changed along with, you know, the positions that I've had on campus and the people, the different faculty and staff who have been through our doors on campus, too. But we have really, I think now that we're with Green Bay, have really changed to be something that's quite amazing. The sixteen-county footprint that we are now able to serve, even going into the UP of Michigan, is amazing. And so I think the opportunity is there. I think we just need to give it some time. This whole Covid thing now has really thrown a wrench in everybody. I mean, higher ed in general is really taking a look at how we do things. And I think it's really forced us to have to move to look at alternative deliveries a bit more. It has really increased the ability for our faculty to be more nimble and adapt to using various modalities as well. But I think we've got some great leaders of the academic programs at Green 01:03:00Bay who can really help foster this thing and move it along with our faculty.

But I had the pleasure yesterday of calling some students just to check in. Because we're doing check-ins with all of our current students. How are you doing? Yes, we know this semester isn't exactly how we thought it was going to be right at the beginning of it, so we wanted to do check-ins with students. And I had some phenomenal conversations with students. And the pleasure of them being a UW Green Bay student and the outreach and the care that we give to our students I think is something that they really appreciate and value.

LEH: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really important thing, keeping in touch with people, for sure.

CB: Yup.

LEH: All right.

End first interview session